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- Visor & Deluxe (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/forumdisplay.php?forumid=1)
-- We need an ORGANIZER (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=159)

At first I was having a real hard time between choosing the Palm Vx and the Visor. But realistically would you really use the Springboard function. Would you play games, listen to MP3 music, use a GPS etc... For most of us I would assume is that we bought the organizer to organize our lives and to keep contacts and a database of events and days etc. Most people I know do have a cell phone and MD players and so fourth. I think that if you integrate too many functions into the device it just doesn't cut out to be an organizer anymore. What do you think? Any comments....

Personaly, I like the fact that I get 8 MB vs 2-4 MB for about half the price! I mean I would take this just for the serious price break, the springboard is a bonus, and coupled with the palm OS, which is proven, I think it is a better deal than palm. The whole issue of wether a person wants multiple devices on thier machine is totaly up to them. I would like to be able ot use my machine for the GPS feature (I get lost in the city easy) and the wireless modem, when it comes out, for remote email. The games don't interest me, like you I need an organizer, not an expensive game boy, but I might go for an Mp3 player.

I think a lot of people are in the same situation. They need to get an PDA for organizing addresses, phone numbers, appointments, etc. and they've narrowed it down to a PDA running on the Palm OS. You have your Palm Vx coming that is sleek, sexy, very compact with 8MB RAM to boot but quite expensive compared to even the most expensive Visor. Then you have the Visors which is basically a Palm with the springboard expansion port and funky colors but will cost much less than a Palm Vx. The two deciding factors for me is probably price and the springboard thing. If price is not really and issue and I don't care for the Springboard than I'd just get the Palm V. But the truth is, the springboard feature is kind of a "gotta have it!" thing for me so I can't decide either.

Oh and I've tried using a GPS on Palm III before and I think it is damn cool. The GPS is an Earthmate GPS receiver that looks like a yellow plastic card and you use a special cable to connect it your Palm. You download maps and/or directions and the special software (Solus comes with the GPS) from your PC onto your Palm and your pretty much set. I think that when a GPS comes out for Visor it'll be a much nicer setup since the GPS receiver will be inside the springboard and not dangling on a cable from the bottom of the machine

I am a happy guy if I can squeeze one more use out of my Palm Device. It is ALOT less expensive than a laptop, but let's face it, $300 is alot of money! (Original Purchase price of Palm III.) Anything I can combine, or function I can grab is a GOOD THING! I use my Palm III to run Quicken, HourzPro, quicksheet. As well as the standard stuff, and all the games. I would love to try a GPS, but it has been a ?? of $$. I also use Veichle Log to track my cars' maintence logs.

I admit sometimes I do things with it just to see if I can, but I like the expandability and I say, "Gimme ALL the options and ALL the gadgets!"

My thing is that in my social circles, I'm "Mr. High Tech". I have the minidisc recorder and the Palm IIIx (used to have a V). And many people in these circles would like to be able to keep up in some way with technology. But my expensive Palm and MD discourage them quite a bit.

Enter the Visor. Now there's a good PalmOS -based machine with a killer screen for a reasonable price. Most of the people I know are on budgets, and soon, I'll have a product I can show my friends and associates that lets them get into a little high-tech nook without going broke (and they've got free tech support from me). :-)

To address the Springboard issue, I don't know if I'll use it or not. It's there, so maybe someday. But at this point, it's just an added bonus (we hope).

I have to agree. It is an organizer that we are looking for and a place to keep just about every type of information we can in our shirt pockets. I have been torn between the Visor and Palm IIIx for quite some time. But, it is hard to justify paying more for less features. As for the Springboard, who knows what will become of it, but its a nice option. I also disagree with those who are trying to label this unit as a "consumer" unit. It is just as (if not more) powerful than the techies Palm iiix

Basically, I looked at features vs. price and the Visor Deluxe came out on top. The Springboard functionality is an idea that's been a long time coming. To be perfectly honest, I figure I'll probably get the MP3 module (by Innogear, IIRC) since it has both MP3 and voice recording capability, since I'm "in the market" for both those things. I'll wait and see how the reviews are, of course. I wouldn't mind seeing a Game Boy adapter either.

Yes, I want and need an organizer, but if I can expand on that organizer to perform other functions then so much the better.

If you want just an organizer that the OS will not be flash upgradeable buy a Visor. If you want expandability and other "toys" buy a Visor. Handspring will undoubtably follow the path of Pilot. The first units were "clunky" and untried. Secondary units were much improved and no one should really complain about the Palm OS to date relative to the much slower Windows CE machines.

However, Visor/Handspring should have a jump on the OS etc since it's the people that started the Pilot. I'd say that look at both systems and play with some additional software besides what comes on either the Pilot or the Visor. The Pilot was not truely the Organizer that many people initially wanted until you added software. The Visor will benefit from the vast quantity of software that is already in existence thanks to Pilot.

The choice of course will be yours but this Pilot user and Beta tester has already ordered his Visor Deluxe due to the expandabilty feature.

[This message has been edited by RSGMOOSE (edited 09-25-1999).]

The organizer issue was settled years ago. With the Palm OS installed, you're getting all the functionality of the Vx at $175 less. Yes, the Vx is smaller, but that $175 is a lot of money (for me, at least).

Why do we need the Springboard? The best answer is: we don't know why -- yet. It's the same with PCs. Back in the early seveties, no one could imagine why anyone would need a home computer other than to store recipes. Then VisiCalc for the Apple II came along and changed everthing.

Right now, dozens of companies are sitting around cooking up schemes for what they imagine will be the "killer app" for the Visor. I've loved reading all the suggestions that Visorheads on these discussion board have come up with for what they would like to see.

As I see it, we have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Unlike some PDA's, at least you know your money is well-spent. I'd rather spend $150 on a Visor Solo than $100 on a Royal Da Vinci or WinCE box.

The Springboards I'll be getting immediately upon availability are the pager and MP3 modules.

I'm definitely going to use the Handspring slot. Here's why:

Right now I carry around a Palm Pro, a Gotype keyboard, two 3.5 diskettes with important files, my wallet, my checkbook, two pens, Post-its (black, of course), business cards, keys, and a portable phone. I try to stuff all of this into a tiny shoulder bag, and it often looks like I inflated it with air, it's so packed.

With the Handspring module, I can eliminate the phone, and with that new keyboard coming out, I can cut down on the size of the keyboard. Anything to save space and weight!


------------------
"Scalpel"
Atomic Hyrax Games

I think that the Visor is one step closer to the all purpose device we'll all be carrying around in the future (possibly).

Picture this: You're out running errands carrying your all purpose device (I'll call it APD for short). You see something you want to buy, but you're not sure about the price. So, you connect to the internet with your APD, and look up competative prices. You discover that you've found a good deal on whatever it is you want to get, so you decide to buy it. You take it up to the cash register, and instead of handing them your check card or credit card, you send (using the IR port) your digital certificate to the cash register. Your APD records many details about the transaction, including where the purchase was made, what you bought, how much it was, etc. You check your bank account on your APD, which keeps a running total of the account, including which transactions have cleared, and which haven't. On your way home, you get hungry and decide to call home to see if your family wants you to pick up anything. You call them on your APD and talk to them. Each member of your family wants something a little different, so you activate voice recognition on your APD, while the rest of the family at home tells you what they want. You hang up, and look at the text now displayed on your APD. You get online again and place an order at the restaurant, and pay for it. However, you've never been to this particular restaurant, so you need to find out how to get there. You tell the APD what restaurant it is. The APD connects to the internet, gets a map and finds out the lattitude and longitude coordinates of the restaurant. It then figures out where you are, using GPS, and draws you a map to the restaurant. When you get there, you pick up your food, and bump into an old friend and exchange conctact info with the IR port on your APDs. On your way home, you plug your APD into the built in dock in your car, which recharges the batteries, while simultaneously playing some of the MP3's you've got stored on it. Finally, you get home, use the APD to open the garage door, and sit down to supper.

Sorry for rambling, but I think that this narrative just scratches the surface of what capabilities these kinds of things will have in the not too distant future. And the Visor is one step closer to this.

ChrisB, IR is great for remotes and other low speed things, but think about the usability with something like Bluetooth built in, it is made for the exact situations you were talking about, and with bluetooth in a few other things, you will not even have to connect them. Think about a gps receiver in your backpack or purse automatically connecting to your APD without having to physically touch it and the transactions with the store and restaurant without having to even take out and point your APD. It is not that an IR connection would be very inconvenient but there are limitless apps for something like bluetooth, if there are any questions as to what it is check out the springboards page and look at the airport springboard topic.

Yeah. I certainly wouldn't want to be making monitary transactions using IR, especially since things like flourescent lights can interfere with IR. And the line of sight limitation with IR is, well, a limitation. Bluetooth sounds pretty cool. I need to read up on it more.

What about the fact that Bluetooth broadcasts in a sphere, and IR is line-of-sight? I'd MUCH rather make monetary transactions from a few inches away using line-of-sight. Who's going to intercept it? Someone could sit around department stores with a signal-grabbing device and store encoded Bluethooth transmissions for later decoding, and BAM there goes your bank account. No thanks. Bluetooth is great for communicating information that's not terribly sensitive, I think you'd be wise to watch what you send.

-Achilles

Well, I think that might be just another security issue to be dealt with, just like ecommerce on the internet. It's become fairly secure now, but wasn't for a while. I'm sure we would eventually find ways to deal with that issue.

I don't think security would be that much of an issue. Look at it this way: Broadcasting your credit card number to a cash register via Bluetooth isn't much different than broadcasting it to Amazon.com through your web browser. The standard 56-bit encryption is fairly secure. Someone managed to crack it, I think, but it took *years* of computing time, IIRC. Not something your standard thief is going to be able to do. 128-bit encryption is *very* secure. Either could be used with little effort.

Like many here, the Springboard was not a deal maker or deal breaker for me. I was about to buy a PalmPilot for the very first time...tired of juggling address book, calendar, to-do list, etc...new responsibilities at work, more travel, complex schedules...and I was just about to take the plunge when I read about Visor. I don't know YET what I might use 8 meg for, and I don't know yet what Springboard modules I might use, but I *know* I want as state of the art I can get...and I'm a cheapskate. I just couldn't make myself kick out the needed $$$ for a Palm III or V. For me it was all about the price point.

I'll probably find a must-have Springboard add-on before too long, but it's sure not the reason I'm going Visor.

And as far as the 8MB goes, that sounds like a lot right now, but I remember when 64 K (that's "K", not "MB") sounded like a lot for a computer. "MAN! Check out this new Amiga thing! It's got 128 K of memory in it! And look at these new hard drives! They store 50 Megabytes!!! What are we going to do with all that space?"

I don't think it will be too long from now that handhelds have more like 64 MB in them. And we'll have ways of filling it all up too.

Indeed. My husband and I are counting out our pennies, trying to figure if we can buy the new iMac "Special Edition" right now ... the Graphite one with the G3 and all the digital video bells and whistles...and it had a 13 GB hard drive. Yoicks!

Seems like just yesterday I was running my system software off a floppy on my shiny new Mac Plus...why, we didn't even have hard drives in those days! Young whippersnappers!

Not to freak anyone out, but Slashdot posted an article a couple of days back that said the Israelis had created a quantum-optical computer that had cracked the European Central Bank's RSA512 key in .12 microseconds. The existence of that kind of technology pretty much makes prime-based keys dinosaurs...think about how much harder it is to crack RSA512 than RSA56!