VisorCentral.com - **Spoilers** Hesston in Apes movie: Anti Gun?

Show 20 posts from this thread on one page

VisorCentral.com (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php)
- Off Topic (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/forumdisplay.php?forumid=6)
-- **Spoilers** Hesston in Apes movie: Anti Gun? (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=17268)

Posted by jeffbeerman2 on 07-30-2001 10:14 AM:

Hesston in Apes movie: Anti Gun?

Ya gotta love that scene. I am surprised that hesston could say anything even a little bit anti-gun, even playing a character in a movie.

__________________
Here's the London Daily Mirror last week: "On a visit to the British Museum he [President George W Bush] was asked by one of 30 pupils gathered what the White House was like, to which he replied: 'It is white.'... Then he went on to tell the audience the importance of a good education. He said: 'Sometimes boys and girls would rather watch TV than read. When your teachers say read, they are giving you pretty damn good advice.' "

Posted by Soul Raven on 07-30-2001 04:18 PM:

In my typical fashion, I am going to comment on this, even though I haven't seen the movie yet.

From the reviews I have read, Heston's character shows a gun to a fellow ape as an example of man's madness and viscisousness. To me, that has a more "guns don't kill people, people kill people" ring to it, which would fall in line with his views as the NRA's head man.

Maybe I should go see the movie for myself instead of relying on the reports of others. This particular critic trashed it, calling it inane and stupid. I'll probably like it!

__________________
Soul Raven - "Sm� hjerne, stor gl�de"
Wherever you go, there you are.

Posted by septimus on 07-30-2001 04:34 PM:

Spoilers, anyone?

I'd love to discuss the ending, as I'm mondo confused and the only theories I can cobble together kinda suck.. Anyone want in?

__________________
Don't like somebody? Click "Profile" on a post and then click "Ignore "so and so's" posts". Voila!

Posted by creole on 07-30-2001 05:33 PM:

I thought the movie was pretty lame actually. Thought the ending was stupid. They could have left out the last 8 minutes or so and the movie would have been better.

Posted by sdoersam on 07-30-2001 05:38 PM:

Spoilers! Get your Spoilers!

While I enjoyed to movie overall, I found quite a few continuity problems. For example: Where did the horses come from? Why can't a USAF pilot land a pod without crashing, yet a trained monkey can perform a perfect one? If, as is commented on by the apes, humans are so inventive, why are they still in the stone age?

I also viewed the Heston "speech" as a "evil of humans" vs a "evil of guns" speech

Dietrichbohn,
How about this for a theory? In an alternate time, the Apes won the war before Pericles landed. After he landed, they dissected the space pod, and figured out space travel. They built a large space craft, a group of them left the planet, travelled through the storm and wound up back in time on earth, and renewed their war there. Best I've come up with so far....

Or maybe the ending was just a tribute to the original movie?

__________________
Sven

If at first you do succeed, try not to look astonished.

Posted by homer on 07-30-2001 05:49 PM:

Warning: <b>SPOILERS AHEAD</b>

quote:
For example: Where did the horses come from?

Yes! That was the one major item that I couldn't figure out or justify. There weren't any horses on the spaceship. Perhaps it was a planet of horses before the humans and apes got there?

quote:
Why can't a USAF pilot land a pod without crashing, yet a trained monkey can perform a perfect one?

I thought the pod had lost power?

quote:
If, as is commented on by the apes, humans are so inventive, why are they still in the stone age?

Well, keep in mind how long the apes were on that planet. I doubt that it was the same time-span has human existence on this planet.

quote:
I also viewed the Heston "speech" as a "evil of humans" vs a "evil of guns" speech

I did too, I suppose.

quote:
How about this for a theory? In an alternate time, the Apes won the war before Pericles landed. After he landed, they dissected the space pod, and figured out space travel. They built a large space craft, a group of them left the planet, travelled through the storm and wound up back in time on earth, and renewed their war there. Best I've come up with so far....

I thought the ending was great. A traditional, cheesy, "there's going to be a sequel, obviously" cliffhanger.

It was a great Saturday Matinee type movie, IMHO.

__________________
We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
-David Byrne

Posted by septimus on 07-30-2001 05:57 PM:

Re: Spoilers! Get your Spoilers!

Spoilers!

quote:
Originally posted by sdoersam
While I enjoyed to movie overall, I found quite a few continuity problems. For example: Where did the horses come from?

I've seen other people complain about horses, why is it a problem? Nobody has said "Where did the trees come from?" I am very

quote:
Why can't a USAF pilot land a pod without crashing, yet a trained monkey can perform a perfect one?

Presumably, the monkey managed to come out of the storm in a better position. The USAF pilot shot out and was immediately hurtling towards the POTA

quote:
If, as is commented on by the apes, humans are so inventive, why are they still in the stone age?

The Man, er, Ape is keepin them down.

quote:
Dietrichbohn, How about this for a theory? In an alternate time, the Apes won the war before Pericles landed. After he landed, they dissected the space pod, and figured out space travel. They built a large space craft, a group of them left the planet, travelled through the storm and wound up back in time on earth, and renewed their war there. Best I've come up with so far....

Good.. But I don't think that you need the alternate reality scenario (at least not right away). How about this:

Stuck on the Bridge, Thade starts playing around with buttons, and manages to get the videofeed that the Oberon got from Earth (the whole history of TV). He learns human history, and after a couple of years (he figured out the auto-feeder :rolleyes

, he manages to figure out how to use the DNA-booster gun and the last remaining spacepod. He goes through the storm to earth, say, 500 years ago, quickly creates a race of uber-apes, and takes over the planet. B/C he's twisted, he makes sure that he sets up history so it mirrors how it was: thus the Ape monument. The original earth, from which came Marky-Mark, is delegatd to an alternate, less-likey reality.

Yuck. I gotta say, the fact that smart people like us have to conjure far-fetched ideas says a lot about the quality of the ending. I was pissed off that everything was so happy, hunky-dory, and then I was excited because of the opportunity for a dark, real POTA ending, then pissed again when I realized it was incomprehensible

quote:
Or maybe the ending was just a tribute to the original movie?

I think that's it. Actually, there was a ton of that. The first line Heston said to an ape in the original "Get your filthy hands off me you damn dirty ape." The first line we hear in this one "Get you hands off me you damn dirty human." The whole Heston scene, the dark surprise ending. That stuff I loved. The apes I loved. The blonde I hated. Wahlberg doesn't have the right sense of dark irony/anger either, we would have been better off with Nick Cage, Jeremy Irons, or anybody else who doesn't look like a good ol cornfed country boy.

__________________
Don't like somebody? Click "Profile" on a post and then click "Ignore "so and so's" posts". Voila!

Posted by nysebull on 07-30-2001 06:28 PM:

Other continuity problem. How did he get from the rings of Saturn to Earth's air space in a matter of moments in the Space pod at the end?

__________________
Mike

Posted by sdoersam on 07-30-2001 06:29 PM:

Re: Re: Spoilers! Get your Spoilers!

Major Spoilers!

quote:
Originally posted by dietrichbohn

I've seen other people complain about horses, why is it a problem? Nobody has said "Where did the trees come from?" I am very

Well, in the movie, we discover both the humans and the apes came from the crashed space station. The video log he views states the planet was un-inhabited. What are the odds that this planet had horses naturally? Why would they have a pair of horses on a space station? (Here we have the USAF Oberon Equestrian Center...) We won't even get into the "where is the rest of the natural wildlife on the planet" debate. (Unless you really want to

)

quote:

Presumably, the monkey managed to come out of the storm in a better position. The USAF pilot shot out and was immediately hurtling towards the POTA

I didn't have a problem with his first crash landing, it was the second one (back on earth) that bothered me. He winds up careening into the Washington Monuments reflecting pool and skidding up the steps of the "Lincoln" Memorial because he has a landing gear failure? Seems the only problem that should have caused was the pod landing on one side as he came in for a vertical landing. Just another case of hot rodding, space pod jockeys.

quote:

The Man, er, Ape is keepin them down.

Possibly. I would have thought, giving the conversation given in the movie itself, that the humans would have at least been equivalent in technology with the apes, not using stone pointed spears. After all, these people did have 21st century technology when they landed.

quote:

Good.. But I don't think that you need the alternate reality scenario (at least not right away). How about this:...

That fits better than my theory. Although, I'm still trying to figure out how Thade kept from getting hit by all the ricocheting bullets....
Of course, then there's the question of why did Leo try to go back? The chances of his getting back seemed iffy at best. Man, can logic ruin a movie or what?

__________________
Sven

If at first you do succeed, try not to look astonished.

Posted by septimus on 07-30-2001 06:43 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Spoilers! Get your Spoilers!

quote:
Originally posted by sdoersam
What are the odds that this planet had horses naturally? Why would they have a pair of horses on a space station?

Right. Got it. sdoersam: 1, POTA: 0.

quote:
Possibly. I would have thought, giving the conversation given in the movie itself, that the humans would have at least been equivalent in technology with the apes, not using stone pointed spears. After all, these people did have 21st century technology when they landed.

Well, the apes started out stronger and tougher, so the humans got subjugated right away.

quote:
I'm still trying to figure out how Thade kept from getting hit by all the ricocheting bullets....

That's how I assumed he would die.

quote:
Of course, then there's the question of why did Leo try to go back? The chances of his getting back seemed iffy at best.

Well, he's an American, Goddmanit! And an American is only happy in America.

quote:
Man, can logic ruin a movie or what?

Sigh. Not since Batman Returns has Burton so sacrified plot for ambience.

__________________
Don't like somebody? Click "Profile" on a post and then click "Ignore "so and so's" posts". Voila!

Posted by homer on 07-30-2001 07:33 PM:

quote:
Not since Batman Returns has Burton so sacrified plot for ambience.

But that is what Burton does. Ambiance.

I don't think he really cares a whole lot about character development/tight plots/multi-faceted stories, etc...as much as just making the movie look damn good.

__________________
We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
-David Byrne

Posted by homer on 07-30-2001 07:34 PM:

Oh...and as a follow-up question, what who was the monument of in the end? Was it one of the Apes from the planet? I missed that connection.

__________________
We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
-David Byrne

Posted by septimus on 07-30-2001 08:09 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by homer
Oh...and as a follow-up question, what who was the monument of in the end? Was it one of the Apes from the planet? I missed that connection.

I didn't see a name, but it looked a whole heck of a lot like General Thade (Tim Roth--who was brilliant, btw! I was almost embarrased to watch him teeter on the edge of total homicidial mania!)

__________________
Don't like somebody? Click "Profile" on a post and then click "Ignore "so and so's" posts". Voila!

Posted by sdoersam on 07-30-2001 08:24 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by dietrichbohn

I didn't see a name, but it looked a whole heck of a lot like General Thade (Tim Roth--who was brilliant, btw! I was almost embarrased to watch him teeter on the edge of total homicidial mania!)

The inscription on the monument said that it was constructed in honor of General Thade in thanks for his eradication of Humans, if I recall correctly. (I agree that he played the character very well)

__________________
Sven

If at first you do succeed, try not to look astonished.

Posted by septimus on 07-30-2001 08:30 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by sdoersam
The inscription on the monument said that it was constructed in honor of General Thade in thanks for his eradication of Humans, if I recall correctly. (I agree that he played the character very well)

Wouldn't it be nice if we could explain how he did it in so few lines?

__________________
Don't like somebody? Click "Profile" on a post and then click "Ignore "so and so's" posts". Voila!

Posted by sdoersam on 07-30-2001 08:38 PM:

How's this for an explanation

Here is Bruce Snyder's (From 20th Century Fox) explanation explanation of the ending. I liked our theory's better.

__________________
Sven

If at first you do succeed, try not to look astonished.

Posted by septimus on 07-30-2001 08:45 PM:

quote:
Snyder added, "The reality is, there's no firm answer to that. It's whatever you want it to be. Everybody keeps looking for [the answer], but you've got to remember you just watched a movie about talking monkeys in outer space. Don't look for too much logic, you know." Apes is now playing.

Moron. The lack of explanation totally ruined my (and many's) suspension of disbelief. Unless you're going for something avant-garde (which, I argue, we're not), you have to have a system of logic to a move. Talking Apes are believable because the system of the movie allows us to suspend our disbelief. Shattering it at the end like that makes it nothing more than a movie about apes, when it could (and was) much more.

Oh well, I guess my bottom line is that the ambience that Burton created was destroyed by the sappy pre-ending and the incomprehensible ending.

__________________
Don't like somebody? Click "Profile" on a post and then click "Ignore "so and so's" posts". Voila!

Posted by The Rambler on 07-30-2001 09:11 PM:

Another idea could be that the studio forced Tim Burton to add an Earth that was run by Apes making sure that the original and the new version have somewhat of the same story line and the pressure to come up w/ a good clean cut ending was too much for Mr. Burton so he crashed the pilot in the middle of Washington... OK OK so maybe my theories need some work. All right alot of work

__________________
Son mis dos centados!

All times are GMT. The time now is 10:01 PM.

Show 20 posts from this thread on one page