VisorCentral.com - I can't believe I didn't get to be garbage *or* It's good to be back

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Posted by Toby on 07-30-2002 04:49 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by K. Cannon
Oh--I wasn't really commenting specifically on your saying I was wrong b/c it was served too cold... I was just grousing at the typical attitude most (but evidently not you) "fancy" beer drinkers have towards regular beer drinkers.

*shrug* I think 'fancy beer' is an oxymoron. Other than some pretty obscure stuff, beers like Guinness et al are about as blue collar as one can get.

quote:
I'm not thinking that anymore. My dad is currently trying his hand at brewing beer. Any tips for him? (Or for those of us who server as guenna pigs?)

RTFM. Get a good book and read it well. You have to get your head around the process enough to be able to just relax and do it. Papazian's New Complete Joy of Home Brewing is excellent for that purpose. For the more intermediate to advanced stuff, Dave Miller's stuff is better, though. It's basically like cooking, though. No two people are going to have the exact same feel or process, so you kinda have to work out what works for you. _The_ single most important thing, though, is sanitation. Make sure that all the equipment used is clean. The second most important thing is good, healthy yeast. Good yeast can even make up somewhat for bad sanitation, but it can't cure everything.

Posted by Toby on 07-31-2002 06:26 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by BobbyMike
NEWS FLASH!! [...]
BobbyMike is leaving the dealership as the senior Nissan saleman, after seeing approximately 62 other salespeople come and go in just two short years. He plans to split his time between online sales of his companies antique millinery supplies, cabinet making, homeschooling his three boys, developing computer games, and supporting his churches mission field.

END OF NEWS FLASH!!

In a related story, Toby has recently divested himself of his 1996 Nissan KingCab SE after a 6-year love/hate relationship.

Toby has recently been seen driving a Thunder Gray Metallic Lancer O-Z Rally.

Posted by K. Cannon on 08-01-2002 05:13 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
[B]Papazian's New Complete Joy of Home Brewing is excellent for that purpose. For the more intermediate to advanced stuff, Dave Miller's stuff is better, though. /B]

Thanks for the info--I'll pass it along. He's got a B-Day coming up and I've always had trouble picking the gift out!
Kelley

Posted by BobbyMike on 08-02-2002 04:06 PM:

"In a related story, Toby has recently divested himself of his 1996 Nissan KingCab SE after a 6-year love/hate relationship. Toby has recently been seen driving a Thunder Gray Metallic Lancer O-Z Rally. "

From hick to slick just like that!

Hope you got good money for the truck. I can't let go of mine, too handy for carrying lumber, horse manure, couches, and such. -but I would consider ditching it for a Lancer O-Z Rally!

I would definitely dump 'em all ( '95 Pathfinder, '93 SE V6 P/U, and '90 240SX) for a 350Z (coming this month to a town near you!)

Of course this is coming from a guy who also wants to buy a 1971 Landrover P/U in questionable condition.

I think I'm sick....

__________________
"I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."

Posted by Toby on 08-02-2002 04:43 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by BobbyMike
From hick to slick just like that!

Can you _really_ consider the Nissan SE 'hick'?

quote:
Hope you got good money for the truck.

Yes, and no. I didn't quite get blue book (although they made up for most of it in the car price) due to the mileage (93000), but I must say that Edmunds.com hit the TMV (which is ~1100 less than blue book) almost dead-on.

quote:
I can't let go of mine, too handy for carrying lumber, horse manure, couches, and such.

Well, anything that can't be moved in our Montero will just have to stay wherever it's at.

quote:
-but I would consider ditching it for a Lancer O-Z Rally!

It's definitely a sweet little car. In several reviews they bag on the performance, but I've come to think that it was inflated expectations (one isn't going to get Lancer Evolution VII or Subaru WRX performance for under $17000). My only direct (i.e. I owned) experiences in this class were an '87 Plymouth Horizon (well, not exactly in the same class, but close), a '93 Sentra XE Limited, and I'm much happier with this one than either of those (although the Sentra was a nice little car in all other respects). It's much peppier than some reviews might lead someone to believe.

quote:
I would definitely dump 'em all ( '95 Pathfinder, '93 SE V6 P/U, and '90 240SX) for a 350Z (coming this month to a town near you!) [...]

Well, the only way I'm ever going back to Nissan is if they find a new local dealer. In conversations I've had with several other people recently, it appears my experience with the dealer isn't unique.

Posted by BobbyMike on 08-02-2002 07:18 PM:

"Well, the only way I'm ever going back to Nissan is if they find a new local dealer. In conversations I've had with several other people recently, it appears my experience with the dealer isn't unique."

That sucks, but I understand. I just delivered (about an hour ago) a Sentra SER Sec V to a guy who had ordered an SER in early March from his local dealer (in Bennington, Vermont). He had still not received his car (cars when ordered usually only take 60 days sometimes 90 days to arrive- but there were cars that could have been located faster in March/April. They just didn't order it and weren't going to tell him). He, out of frustration, called to see if we could help him. We has a car coming in and he snagged that one.
The funny thing is that when he went back in to the other dealer to get his deposit back he requested to speak to the manager about his ordeal. (Tom, my customer, is a very nice guy and very easy to get along with) When he expressed his displeasure with the way he was handled (lack of returned calls, double talk, lies, rudeness) the manager looked him straight in the eyes and asked him if he was a christian. Tom was surprised by the response, but said he was. The guy said with a straight face, "Well I pray for you then brother, it's a sad thing when a christian won't keep his word..." Tom was so amazed he couldn't think of a response and left.

People amaze me.

__________________
"I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."

Posted by Toby on 08-02-2002 08:03 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by BobbyMike
That sucks, but I understand. I just delivered (about an hour ago) a Sentra SER Sec V to a guy who had ordered an SER in early March from his local dealer (in Bennington, Vermont). He had still not received his car (cars when ordered usually only take 60 days sometimes 90 days to arrive- but there were cars that could have been located faster in March/April.

When I tried to get my SE in a different color originally, the dealer gave me a big spiel about how long it would take, etc. When I got my Lancer, they not only found one the same day, they had it on the lot that afternoon. If their computer system wouldn't have been down, I would've probably drove it home that night.

quote:
They just didn't order it and weren't going to tell him). He, out of frustration, called to see if we could help him. We has a car coming in and he snagged that one.

Car dealers are a strange lot.

quote:
The funny thing is that when he went back in to the other dealer to get his deposit back he requested to speak to the manager about his ordeal. (Tom, my customer, is a very nice guy and very easy to get along with) When he expressed his displeasure with the way he was handled (lack of returned calls, double talk, lies, rudeness) the manager looked him straight in the eyes and asked him if he was a christian. Tom was surprised by the response, but said he was. The guy said with a straight face, "Well I pray for you then brother, it's a sad thing when a christian won't keep his word..." Tom was so amazed he couldn't think of a response and left.

People amaze me.

Gee that sounds like my experience with the local Gemini/Goodyear place. I went in for a new set of tires at ~60000 miles and had 'em do a tuneup. The check engine light came on the drive home, but they had closed. Next morning I brought it back in, and it was supposedly coding that the EGR valve was the problem. Well, after messing with them over several weeks, the manager finally tells me to take it wherever to get it fixed and he'll reimburse me. So, I take it to the Nissan dealership to see if service there has improved. After two trips to them, they finally fixed the problem to the tune of ~$300. I wasn't going to miss anymore work time for it, so I asked my wife to drop off the bill to Gemini to get reimbursed. Well, the guy freaks at the bill and tells my wife that he's not going to let anybody screw him out of $300 for a problem that his guys should have been able to find. My wife responds with "well, we didn't ask for you to screw up our truck, and if your guys should have been able to find it, why didn't they?" At this point, he pulls the "you can't talk to me that way, I'm a Christian" routine out of his rectum and says that he can't deal with her, so he obviously needs to talk to me. She dials my number on the cell and hands it to him after I answer. I don't know if he was expecting sympathy from me, but to make a long story less long, she walked out with a check.

Posted by BobbyMike on 08-03-2002 02:42 PM:

Christian is as christian does. I could say I was a master tennis player, but anybody watching me play could see I was not.

Interesting statistic I heard in church, only 40% of the people who call themselves christian actually believe Jesus was the son of God.

Makes you think....

__________________
"I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."

Posted by Toby on 08-03-2002 03:19 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by BobbyMike
Christian is as christian does. I could say I was a master tennis player, but anybody watching me play could see I was not.

Interesting statistic I heard in church, only 40% of the people who call themselves christian actually believe Jesus was the son of God.

Makes you think....

Well, I've always felt that if there is a 'hell' there must be a special place reserved for that sort of 'christian'.

Posted by NeilMcD on 08-05-2002 02:10 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by BobbyMike
Christian is as christian does. I could say I was a master tennis player, but anybody watching me play could see I was not.

Interesting statistic I heard in church, only 40% of the people who call themselves christian actually believe Jesus was the son of God.

Makes you think....

I dunno. I was raised Catholic and now consider myself a free agent. I know a lot of people who go to church, do the best they can to follow the 10 commandments, etc. etc.. they always say they believe in God but not being so sure about the idea that Jesus is the son of God. Does that make them any less of a Christian?

I was flipping through the channels yesterday and came across a televangelist who was railing against islam and constantly saying, "they're not saved...they this, and they that".

Seeing that reminded me of why I seriously question the need for any type of organized religion: categorizing people by their beliefs and rejecting all others who don't share that belief. Even among people who share the same faith, they're killing each other over rather minor differences (eg. Northern Ireland).

Oh, this isn't the inane ramblings page? dagnabit!

Posted by Toby on 08-05-2002 03:13 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by NeilMcD
I dunno. I was raised Catholic and now consider myself a free agent. I know a lot of people who go to church, do the best they can to follow the 10 commandments, etc. etc.. they always say they believe in God but not being so sure about the idea that Jesus is the son of God. Does that make them any less of a Christian? [...]

One would think that believing that Jesus was the son of God would be a basic requirement to being Christian.

Posted by NeilMcD on 08-05-2002 04:40 PM:

maybe I should rephrase that...

What I *should* have said is a person who goes to church, follows the 10 Commandments and tries his darn-hard level best to come to grips with the idea that Jesus is the son of God should be considered Christian.

My wife is a born-again Christian and I always encourage her to follow her faith. I've gone to her services with her a few times and I always fidget toward the end of the service where the minister calls on people who "believe" to come to the front of the church and "be saved" and if you're still sitting down, well, I got to know what peer pressure feels like (I was still sitting down when the service ended)

I can only wonder how many of those people who went to the front actually 100% believed they were "saved".

Off on a tangent: When the Hare Krishna movement first started in India many many hundreds of years ago, the main idea was the constantly be thinking of God and you would be admitted to paradise. An man thought this was rubbish and decided to go against this by thinking to himself, "There is no god" 24/7.

When he died, he appeared in paradise because he was constantly thinking of god.

Just a weird thought that popped into my head. I get a lot of those sometimes.

Posted by Toby on 08-05-2002 05:25 PM:

Re: maybe I should rephrase that...

quote:
Originally posted by NeilMcD
What I *should* have said is a person who goes to church, follows the 10 Commandments and tries his darn-hard level best to come to grips with the idea that Jesus is the son of God should be considered Christian. [...]

Why should church matter? The ultimate measure of a Christian is someone who both believes that Christ was the son of God and lives their life the way that he taught they should. AAMOF, the Ten Commandments and church are irrelevant.

Posted by NeilMcD on 08-05-2002 06:52 PM:

Re: Re: maybe I should rephrase that...

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
Why should church matter? The ultimate measure of a Christian is someone who both believes that Christ was the son of God and lives their life the way that he taught they should. AAMOF, the Ten Commandments and church are irrelevant.

I'm Toby-izing Toby!

Based on your last sentence, The Bible is irrelevant. After all, the Bible is what tells us about Adam and Eve, Moses and the Ten Commandments, the birth of Christ, how Christ died on the cross, his apostles founded the Church, etc. etc.

So what *do* you base our faith on?

Posted by Toby on 08-05-2002 07:31 PM:

Re: Re: Re: maybe I should rephrase that...

quote:
Originally posted by NeilMcD
I'm Toby-izing Toby!

Ahh...but you have much to learn in the ways of pedanticism, grasshopper.

quote:
Based on your last sentence, The Bible is irrelevant.

Much of it is. AAMOF, the Old Testament _is_ for the most part irrelevant to what makes one a Christian (if one buys into the New Testament as being accurate of Christ's teachings).

quote:
After all, the Bible is what tells us about Adam and Eve, Moses and the Ten Commandments, the birth of Christ, how Christ died on the cross, his apostles founded the Church, etc. etc.

The Old Testament was more focused on God's covenant with the Jews and the stories of their history. The New Testament, OTOH, was concerned with the _new_ covenant between Christ and _all_ peoples (based on Saul/Paul's vision that his mission was to spread the word of Christ to the Gentiles).

quote:
So what *do* you base our faith on?

*shrug* If I knew that, I might understand why people 'get religion'.

Posted by NeilMcD on 08-05-2002 08:52 PM:

gotcha.

don't call me grasshopper. I just started taking a kung fu class which means I'm starting waaa-aaa-yyy at the bottom, with a white belt. The first class I go to has two black belts, and one brown belt.

In my desire to seem not-so-new, I tried to beat the stuffing out of one of those pads that your classmate holds while you punch/kick it. Of course, me being new, I'm grunting and groaning with every punch. I'm feeling pretty good about myself when I finish my first set punches and I see my classmate rub his shoulder for a second.

Then he quietly delivers his first punch. Sends me and aforementioned pad to the floor even after I said I was ready. I was totally unprepared for how hard and how fast the punch comes. A good lesson in humility and shows me why I'm a white belt and he's the black belt.

Posted by BobbyMike on 08-07-2002 05:58 PM:

"*shrug* If I knew that, I might understand why people 'get religion'. "

IMHO people "get religion" because they don't want to think for themselves.

Jesus is pretty adamant(sic) about people "casting out demons" and such "in his name", but in the end He "knew them not".

The Bible is important to Christianity because (as Toby states) the Old Testament "... was more focused on God's covenant with the Jews and the stories of their history. " and the New Testament "...OTOH, was concerned with the _new_ covenant between Christ and _all_ peoples (based on Saul/Paul's vision that his mission was to spread the word of Christ to the Gentiles)."

The old is important because a Christian needs to know where we came from and the new because we need to know where we are going. Faith should not rely on an institution (a particular church, denomination) but on Christ (that is if you are a Christian) because the main thrust of Christianity is that because of his sacrifice our inevitable sins are forgiven and we all can have our own personal relationship with Christ (yes, he loves everyone) regardless of what someone else thinks of you, or what you have done in your past.

At least that's what he said in the Bible.

__________________
"I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."

Posted by NeilMcD on 08-07-2002 06:27 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by BobbyMike
At least that's what he said in the Bible.

Is that really what He said? I love Chris Rock's line in the movie Dogma where he says he was the only black apostle and the other guys "wrote him out" becuase they were white (or something to that effect).

How do we account for the idea that humans actually wrote the bible and we accept it as His word? As far as I know, Jesus never sat down with a quill and some papyrus and took notes.

Posted by Toby on 08-07-2002 06:46 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by NeilMcD
Is that really what He said? [...]

*shrug* Don't ask me. I've recently been informed that I'm some sort of 'would-be intellectual' on another forum.

Posted by K. Cannon on 08-07-2002 06:51 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by NeilMcD
How do we account for the idea that humans actually wrote the bible and we accept it as His word?

Same way we thank Him after a successful surgery, even though human hands wielded the scalpel.

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