VisorCentral.com - (In)Decision 2000 Discussion

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Posted by matty on 11-15-2000 06:38 PM:

quake, thunderdome, steel cage, they're all great ideas... then there's new mexico:

quote:
(from cnn.com)

Recounts appeared most likely in New Mexico and Oregon. State police in New Mexico moved ahead Tuesday with a court-ordered impoundment of ballots across the state. State Republicans wanted impoundments to ensure ballots were protected in case of a recount or challenge. State officials will finalize the results November 28, and either side will have six days to request a recount.

Under New Mexico law, if the candidates end up tied, the winner could be determined by having the two men sit for a hand of poker -- with the state going to the winner.

New Mexico statute requires that in case of a tie, "the determination as to which of the candidates shall be declared to have been nominated or elected shall be decided by lot." In practice, the usual method for this rare event has been to play one hand of five-card poker.

This was last done in December 1999, in a local judge's race. Republican Jim Blanq and Democrat Lena Milligan played one hand of poker in a courthouse with dozens of people watching, and Blanq won.

wow.

(i'm not sure who gets the advantage in this contest... ag probably counts cards, but the shrub probably has an ace up his sleeve.)

[Edited by matty on 11-15-2000 at 01:42 PM]

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Posted by g_omega013 on 11-15-2000 07:42 PM:

A thought....

Don't know if anyone's thought of this...but every president elected for a year ending in 0 for at least the last 150+ years has been assassinated (Regan was shot, but survived). If I were Bush or Gore, I'd be trying to get someone else in office to protect themselves and re-run in 2004....

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Posted by Toby on 11-15-2000 08:15 PM:

Re: A thought....

quote:
Originally posted by g_omega013
Don't know if anyone's thought of this...but every president elected for a year ending in 0 for at least the last 150+ years has been assassinated (Regan was shot, but survived). If I were Bush or Gore, I'd be trying to get someone else in office to protect themselves and re-run in 2004....

Actually, the Zero Factor makes no specific statement about assassination. The "curse" merely stated that the guy would die in office. Harrison (the original) died of pneumonia. Two others died of natural causes (stroke and brain hemorrhage IIRC). Reagan broke it.

Posted by Charo on 11-17-2000 07:34 AM:

how Texas recounts punch card ballots & chads

messed up -- see next post.

[Edited by Charo on 11-17-2000 at 02:37 AM]

Posted by Charo on 11-17-2000 07:36 AM:

how Texas recounts punch card ballots & chads

The 1997 Texas election law regarding punch card ballot recounts:

The 1997 election law, signed without comment by Governor George Bush, says ``a manual recount shall be conducted in preference to an electronic recount and an electronic recount using a corrected program shall be conducted in preference to an electronic recount using the same program as the original count.''

The Texas Election Code -- Section 127.130 -- says a manually counted punch-card ballot ``may not be counted unless:

(1) at least two corners of the chad are detached;

(2) light is visible through the hole;

(3) an indentation on the chad from the stylus or other object is present and indicates a clearly ascertainable intent of the voter to vote; or

(4) the chad reflects by other means a clearly ascertainable intent of the voter to vote.''

Yesterday's Austin American-Statesman newspaper details the law and two times it has been used by Republicans in Texas to win election recounts of punch card ballots. Governor Bush named one of them Landslide.

http://austin360.com/statesman/edit...ay/news_17.html

Posted by lennonhead on 11-17-2000 09:20 PM:

quote:
Reagan broke it.

Yeah, but he lost his memory. Thats pretty close to being dead. By the end of his term he was reading off of cue cards during meetings. It's quite sad really.

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Posted by K. Cannon on 11-17-2000 09:24 PM:

Weekend at Bernie's, anyone?

Watch it, there, lennonhead!

Next thing you know, you are going to be picking my state's Senior Prize, Senator Thurmond!

Posted by lennonhead on 11-18-2000 11:53 PM:

Hehe, no I'll leave him alone, at least until he is out of office .

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Posted by yardie on 11-19-2000 08:03 AM:

Shiocked

I am not in the US. But I was shocked to find out that the head of elections in Florida is openly campainged for G.W Bush. Not only that! But was also teh Co_chair person of his campaign in Florida. Isn't this a blatant conflict of interest? Why is that the states do not have independent and non-partisan bodies overseeing the elections? The status quo doesn't seem, right at all.

Posted by Toby on 11-20-2000 02:44 PM:

Re: Shiocked

quote:
Originally posted by yardie
I am not in the US. But I was shocked to find out that the head of elections in Florida is openly campainged for G.W Bush.

I hear that the President of the United States openly campaigned for Al Gore.

quote:
Not only that! But was also teh Co_chair person of his campaign in Florida. Isn't this a blatant conflict of interest?

No more than the Attorney General's involvement when he's on the list of electors for Al Gore in that same state.

quote:
Why is that the states do not have independent and non-partisan bodies overseeing the elections?

Maybe because there's really not any such thing.

quote:
The status quo doesn't seem, right at all.

The status quo is seldom right, IMO.

Posted by LanMan on 11-20-2000 04:01 PM:

I don't believe it! Now they want to "Gore" us again, by recounting and deciding the "intent" of the voter. �The corner on that chad looks a little weak. I think that the intent was clearly to vote for Gore.�, or maybe �That looks like a pregnant and puckered chad to me. One for Gore.� Why don�t they just bring in a psychic to wave their hands over the ballot and divine the intent of the voter? Maybe the Democrat�s can Ouiji board in some votes of long dead Floridian�s while they are at it.

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Posted by JHromadka on 11-20-2000 06:42 PM:

Raise your hand if you had no idea what a chad was before this election.

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Posted by Danchez on 11-20-2000 07:24 PM:

/me raises his hand!

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Posted by lennonhead on 11-21-2000 05:03 AM:

My hand is up...

(boy was I tired when I wrote this last night, I have to correct it twice to get one sentence correct)

[Edited by lennonhead on 11-21-2000 at 01:19 PM]

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Posted by ToolkiT on 11-21-2000 05:39 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by JHromadka
Raise your hand if you had no idea what a chad was before this election.

I still have no idea

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Posted by dick-richardson on 11-21-2000 06:23 AM:

Isn't Chad a country in Africa? How do we know the intent of pregnant and puckered Chads? I'm confused. Let me vote again. I may not be able to follow an arrow, but I can decide who the most powerful man (militarily) in the world is. I just hope Bush wins. That way we'll have less restriction on guns so when the revolution comes I can defend myself. I've got a bunch of crap left over from my Y2K planning, but with Jesus coming soon I don't think I'll need it. I voted for James. If he can rule over VisorCentral with an iron fist he can whip this country into shape. I'm moving to Chad.

[Edited by dick-richardson on 11-21-2000 at 01:26 AM]

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Posted by ToolkiT on 11-21-2000 06:59 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson
Isn't Chad a country in Africa? How do we know the intent of pregnant and puckered Chads? I'm confused. Let me vote again. I may not be able to follow an arrow, but I can decide who the most powerful man (militarily) in the world is. I just hope Bush wins. That way we'll have less restriction on guns so when the revolution comes I can defend myself. I've got a bunch of crap left over from my Y2K planning, but with Jesus coming soon I don't think I'll need it. I voted for James. If he can rule over VisorCentral with an iron fist he can whip this country into shape. I'm moving to Chad.

[Edited by dick-richardson on 11-21-2000 at 01:26 AM]

LOL!

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Posted by JHromadka on 11-21-2000 02:01 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson
I voted for James. If he can rule over VisorCentral with an iron fist he can whip this country into shape. I'm moving to Chad.

LOL! We should start the Hand party! Free PDAs and a helping hand for everyone!

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Posted by Hoser_back_home on 11-21-2000 02:33 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JHromadka
[QUOTE]
LOL! We should start the Hand party! Free PDAs and a helping hand for everyone!

you could in canada!!!

one of the requirements:

quote:
"the names, addresses and signatures of 100 electors who are party members (these persons will be asked by Elections Canada to confirm their membership in writing)"

from this page which lists all the requirements:

http://www.elections.ca/content.asp...;textonly=false

and you can check out who already has a party here:

http://www.elections.ca/content.asp...;textonly=false

and their VERY interesting logos here:

http://www.elections.ca/content.asp...;textonly=false

(my parents ACTUALLY have somebody from the marijuana Party running in their ward (district)!!)

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Posted by Toby on 11-21-2000 05:07 PM:

Re: how Texas recounts punch card ballots & chads

quote:
Originally posted by Charo

The 1997 Texas election law regarding punch card ballot recounts:
{snippage}

That's all well and good, but what does it have to do with Florida? There is not (and it would be unconstitutional to try to pass) a uniform standard requiring all states to conduct their elections, counts, recounts, etc. the exact same way. I notice that you seemed to leave out passages which I've seen elsewhere which only show preference towards a hand recount where one candidate has requested manual, and the other machine. IOW, the preference towards manual recounts seems to suggest both a time and monetary constraint on recount costs. It's cheaper and quicker if only one recount is done, so go with the more involved one when both are being requested so that you don't waste time money on having to do both anyway.

If Florida had such a requirement in existence before this instance, all this controversy possibly wouldn't exist, but it evidently didn't, so trying to get some 11th hour ex post facto provision into place is ridiculous, if not unconstitutional.

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