VisorCentral.com - No more Handspring?

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VisorCentral.com (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php)
- Visor General Chat (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/forumdisplay.php?forumid=31)
-- No more Handspring? (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=22953)

Posted by Techie2000 on 04-27-2002 03:27 PM:

I purchased my Visor Deluxe because at the time Springboard was the only way to expand with a non-PPC handheld. My only springboard is an Innopack 2V I got for $25. I am getting ready to abandon this sinking ship though...

Posted by DBHarvey on 04-29-2002 03:04 PM:

Springboard

I don't agree that the Springboard slot was a bad idea. I don't thing that the SD, CF slots are suited for certain things. The Springboard works very well for things like GPS, voice recorder, etc. I think the problem has been that Handspring hasn't done enough to update it and its Visor line, but I still think it is a viable design, look at how many Springboard devices there are and how few there are of other expansion types. Its just too bad that Donna D made her stupid remarks. It may cause Handspring to cancel the Visor line because her remarks caused sales to drop (causing a self fulfilled prophecy...)

Posted by wshwe on 04-30-2002 03:07 AM:

Visor sales were dropping before Donna's infamous announcement.

The introduction of the Visor Deluxe created the market for value-priced handhelds. If memory serves me, when HandSpring announced the Visor Deluxe it was either the same price or $100 cheaper than the Palm IIIxe. The IIIxe had only 4 MB of memory vs. the Deluxe's 8 MB. On top of that, the Deluxe had expansion capability. Palm fought back with the m100 line. Now Palm has HandSpring's number in the budget market, the market which HandSpring created.

Out of 10 people I know with PDAs only 2 own Visors and 8 own various Palms. Two of those people bought m100s within the past 12 months.

Posted by Toby on 04-30-2002 02:43 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by wshwe
Visor sales were dropping before Donna's infamous announcement.

One might suspect that Palm's dumping inventory of the Vx might have had something to do with that.

quote:
The introduction of the Visor Deluxe created the market for value-priced handhelds. If memory serves me, when HandSpring announced the Visor Deluxe it was either the same price or $100 cheaper than the Palm IIIxe.

It was ~$100 cheaper.

quote:
The IIIxe had only 4 MB of memory vs. the Deluxe's 8 MB.

Nope. The IIIx had only 4MB. The IIIxe had 8MB. The advantage of the Visor Deluxe was that it was cheaper and expandable with more than just memory.

quote:
On top of that, the Deluxe had expansion capability. Palm fought back with the m100 line. Now Palm has HandSpring's number in the budget market, the market which HandSpring created.

And ultimately Palm is still playing catchup technologically. Please name one original idea Palm has had since the team currently at Handspring left them. All of their licensees are the ones coming up with the really interesting things.

quote:
Out of 10 people I know with PDAs only 2 own Visors and 8 own various Palms. Two of those people bought m100s within the past 12 months.

And anecdotal evidence is worth exactly what?

Posted by Madkins007 on 04-30-2002 03:59 PM:

One of Handsprings problems is and has been the problem they have had getting their market niche to know they are even around.

Where can the average non-Internet buyer go to get a Handspring PDA and some sales support that can talk about it?

How would the average potential customer even KNOW Handspring exists adn is an option?

They do almost no general advertising (although their ad on Ask Jeeves banner is where I learned about them!), yet they aim their stuff at the general public.

Palm has a HUGE advantage by being sold at Target and other places, and in their very name- most people call these things 'Palms' whether they are made by them or not. A customer who walks into Best Buy and says they want a Palm will usually be shown mostly Palms. If they walk into Office Depot (a logical place for this sort of purchase), they might not learn anything about Handspring.

Palm also usually enjoys the 'soup can' advantage. Grocery stores KNOW that 90% of their customers buy only a few types of soup, yet soup makers keep making new varieties in order to take over as much shelf space as possible- their goal is a solid 'wall' of their own label.

In almost any store that sells a selection of PDA's, Palms fill most of the display spaces. The average customer has been trained to think that this sort of selection is a good thing and represents a healthier company. This is rarely really true, but it is how most customers think.

IF Handspring goes down, it will be for a variety of problems that sort of snowball on you. Low profits make it harder to be innovative and spend money for advertising and marketing. No new products to announce reduce your sales figures. Poor customer service results in bad PR and abandonement, and as sales decline, customer support is hit as well. Big companies, like Sony, move into the territory slowly- letting other companies take the risk, then they pull out their big guns and make a big splash- people buy them because they recognise and trust the name (whether they should or not). A certain degree of market saturation occurs and sales overall slump- especially with cell phones, laptops, etc. crowding the market.

Vaporware, premature announcements, missteps, rumor mills, and that sort of thing also affect a smaller company.

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Posted by foo fighter on 04-30-2002 04:26 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Madkins007
One of Handsprings problems is and has been the problem they have had getting their market niche to know they are even around.[snip] How would the average potential customer even KNOW Handspring exists adn is an option?

I disagree. Exposure isn't the problem. You can buy a Handspring product in just about any electronics retail chain, and Handspring models are shown in every ad insert. People know who Handspring is, and what the Visor is all about. The real reason why Handspring's product sales are languishing is because consumers don't find the Visor compelling. Visor is, at it's core, just a generic Palm clone. It was the Springboard slot that set it apart from the pack. Now even the Springboard market is slowly drying up. Take that away and you've got just another el cheapo Palm device, and a boring one at that. There is nothing innovative about the Visor. It's no surprise that Compaq has now overtaken them and grabbed the number two spot in the market.

This is why Sony's share of the market is growing so fast. The Clie product line is innovative, different, and competitively priced.

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Posted by Toby on 04-30-2002 05:38 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Madkins007
One of Handsprings problems is and has been the problem they have had getting their market niche to know they are even around.

Huh? They've not been going for a market niche. They've been going for the mainstream market. I could have sworn that you said you read 'Piloting Palm'.

quote:
Where can the average non-Internet buyer go to get a Handspring PDA and some sales support that can talk about it?

Same place as Palms and other consumer PDAs. OTOH, those places generally don't have much in the way of sales support for _any_ PDAs (unless the sales person owns one, then they tend to push what they own).

quote:
How would the average potential customer even KNOW Handspring exists adn is an option?

By walking into the average Best Buy, Office Max, CompUSA, etc. and looking at the shelf where the other PDAs are. As a matter of fact, Handspring is the only one to have an ad on the door when one walks into the front door of the local Office Max. Best Buy routinely has the Visors in their Sunday fliers. Sorry, but brand recognition is not the reason for Handspring's troubles.

quote:
They do almost no general advertising (although their ad on Ask Jeeves banner is where I learned about them!), yet they aim their stuff at the general public.

They don't _need_ to advertise. Their _retailers_ handle advertising. Besides, they really don't have much of anything to advertise anymore. What differentiates Visors at this point?

quote:
Palm has a HUGE advantage by being sold at Target and other places,

Handspring used to be sold at Target also. I'd bet they didn't sell well enough there.

quote:
and in their very name- most people call these things 'Palms' whether they are made by them or not.

So what are you suggesting?

quote:
A customer who walks into Best Buy and says they want a Palm will usually be shown mostly Palms.

And you think they're too stupid to ask about the Visors or Clies sitting right next to them? Nah...more likely that the Visors pale in comparison lately.

quote:
If they walk into Office Depot (a logical place for this sort of purchase), they might not learn anything about Handspring.

That's correct, because OfficeMax across the street is selling Visors much better than Office Depot was.

quote:
Palm also usually enjoys the 'soup can' advantage. Grocery stores KNOW that 90% of their customers buy only a few types of soup, yet soup makers keep making new varieties in order to take over as much shelf space as possible- their goal is a solid 'wall' of their own label.

Again, what are you thinking would 'solve' this 'problem'?

quote:
In almost any store that sells a selection of PDA's, Palms fill most of the display spaces. The average customer has been trained to think that this sort of selection is a good thing and represents a healthier company. This is rarely really true, but it is how most customers think.

So, you think that Handspring should start a slew of new models?

quote:
IF Handspring goes down, it will be for a variety of problems that sort of snowball on you. Low profits make it harder to be innovative and spend money for advertising and marketing. No new products to announce reduce your sales figures. Poor customer service results in bad PR and abandonement, and as sales decline, customer support is hit as well. Big companies, like Sony, move into the territory slowly- letting other companies take the risk, then they pull out their big guns and make a big splash- people buy them because they recognise and trust the name (whether they should or not). A certain degree of market saturation occurs and sales overall slump- especially with cell phones, laptops, etc. crowding the market.

If Handspring goes down, it will be because they didn't have a product that people really wanted to buy, at a price at which they were really willing to buy it, and at a cost where Handspring could really make a profit on it. It doesn't take a 'product line' to make a company successful.

quote:
Vaporware, premature announcements, missteps, rumor mills, and that sort of thing also affect a smaller company.

Bad management affects it much worse.

Posted by foo fighter on 04-30-2002 06:13 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
If Handspring goes down, it will be because they didn't have a product that people really wanted to buy, at a price at which they were really willing to buy it, and at a cost where Handspring could really make a profit on it.

BINGO! You get a gold star.

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Posted by Toby on 04-30-2002 06:56 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by foo fighter
BINGO! You get a gold star.

Well, I did score in the top 5 in the business department and top in my major, so I'd hope I'd have a decent grasp of basic business principles. Otherwise, I'm demanding a refund.

Posted by foo fighter on 04-30-2002 08:11 PM:

Speaking of advertising... Has anyone looked at the new Dell catalog? "Steve" the Dell dude is showing off the Visor Pro. This should spark a tidal wave of sales!

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Posted by Toby on 04-30-2002 09:11 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by foo fighter
Speaking of advertising... Has anyone looked at the new Dell catalog? "Steve" the Dell dude is showing off the Visor Pro. This should spark a tidal wave of sales!

Personally, I always file Dell catalogs in the circular file immediately upon receipt.

Dude, I've got an Alienware.

Posted by foo fighter on 04-30-2002 09:37 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
Personally, I always file Dell catalogs in the circular file immediately upon receipt. Dude, I've got an Alienware.

I've never used an AlienWare system, but they build KICK ASS game machines. They are as good as it gets for "pre-built" boxes.

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