VisorCentral.com - Handspring is being sued!!

Pages (2): [1] 2 »
Show 20 posts from this thread on one page

VisorCentral.com (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php)
- Visor General Chat (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/forumdisplay.php?forumid=31)
-- Handspring is being sued!! (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=13059)

Posted by rtalain on 03-15-2001 05:36 PM:

Just found out that NCR is suing both Handspring and Palm for patent infringement.

From Reuters:

"The patents at issue, both granted in 1987, are for a 'Portable personal terminal for use in a system for handling transactions,' and for a 'System for handling transactions including a portable personal terminal'."

"NCR asked for a jury trial on its demands that Palm and Handspring be blocked from making any more of its products, and that NCR be awarded compensatory and actual damages."

Ron

Posted by Toby on 03-15-2001 06:08 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by rtalain
Just found out that NCR is suing both Handspring and Palm for patent infringement.

From Reuters:

"The patents at issue, both granted in 1987, are for a 'Portable personal terminal for use in a system for handling transactions,' and for a 'System for handling transactions including a portable personal terminal'."

"NCR asked for a jury trial on its demands that Palm and Handspring be blocked from making any more of its products, and that NCR be awarded compensatory and actual damages."

One wonders: Is NCR planning to produce a PocketPC or some other PDA soon? IMO, this is a frivilous suit that doesn't stand a chance of winning, but would potentially eat up time and money.

Posted by visor empowered on 03-15-2001 06:35 PM:

The first question that comes to mind is why isn't NCR sueing Compaq, Psion, Sony or any of the other PDA makers? Or for that matter, why not any laptop makers, cell phone makers etc??

I too don't feel that this will go very far. The real reason for the suit will come to light soon enough. Maybe NCR is pissed because Handspring and/or Palm didn't use them for manufacturing or some such thing.

Just my $0.02 worth. For what it's worth.

__________________
What the Heck! It's what I want!

Posted by mrknowitall on 03-15-2001 07:05 PM:

I guess we would have to see full details of this patent. I'm with you guys. Heh heh.. I'm about ready to tie two tin cans together by string and SELL SELL SELL! Heeheehee

__________________
"The Greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance -- it is the illusion of knowledge." -- Daniel Borstin

Posted by bkbk on 03-15-2001 07:38 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by mrknowitall
I guess we would have to see full details of this patent.

Ditto. And any sketch(es), photos, video, etc.
A pic is still worth 1,000 words.
Wasn't Palm mock-sued (I think the case died) on Graffiti supposedly being "stolen" from some other firm in the last year or so?
I believe you can't patent an "idea" (like a "Wallet PC," PktPC, Palm, Hand, etc.) -- just its EXECUTION. Maybe THEIR idea for a PDA (if they had one) SUCKED.
There have been 1,000,000 Palm-wanna-bes.
But the Palm OS just kills -- shortcuts, UI, etc.
The REAL DETAILS of HOW THINGS WORK, in the end, REALLY MATTER -- even to a user who "doesn't really know why / doesn't think they care."
The proof is in the pudding.
I just can't go for this NCR b.s.

__________________
"Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds." -- Albert Einstein

Posted by argent on 03-15-2001 08:32 PM:

Looks like NCR is taking lessons from Bill Warman.

NCR has been pretty much in bed with Microsoft for a while, so it's probably not in their strategic interest to get it on with them...

__________________
Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC<br>
<a href=http://www.taronga.com/~peter/>Ar rug t� barr�g ar do mhact�re inniu?</a>

Posted by Black_Dragon on 03-15-2001 08:56 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by visor empowered
The first question that comes to mind is why isn't NCR sueing Compaq, Psion, Sony or any of the other PDA makers? Or for that matter, why not any laptop makers, cell phone makers etc??

Look at: http://www.delphion.com/cgi-bin/vie...md/US04634845__ That does look a lot like a Visor, or a Palm Pilot eventho the dimentions aren't anywhere near the same. Plus, on the following pages, you see that this is really supposed to be a tiny organizer/smartcard.

IMNSHO, this suit is Crap. I suppose the real reason that they are suing is that thier patent expires in six years. Throw in a year of legal disputes, and they'll have five years to collect royalties.

...

You know, after looking at this patent, I wish that NCR would spend more time making this thing than suing over it. It would make an excellent Springboard module!

__________________
"Hey! Check out these cresent-fresh skulls in my salad!"- Sifl & Olly

Posted by Vertigo on 03-15-2001 09:07 PM:

I can sum up this lawsuit in one word...
<COUGH> BULLSH*T! </COUGH>.

Posted by Toby on 03-15-2001 09:23 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by visor empowered
The first question that comes to mind is why isn't NCR sueing Compaq, Psion, Sony or any of the other PDA makers? Or for that matter, why not any laptop makers, cell phone makers etc??

<PalmOSBigot>heh...I think I just realized why after reading James' news posting. The patent is supposed to be for a device that is user friendly. This eliminates PocketPC by default.</PalmOSBigot>

Posted by Hoser_back_home on 03-15-2001 09:53 PM:

the patent is listed in the year 1987.....

did they NOT NOTICE all the Palm Pilots floating around for the last 5 years?

__________________
Ever feel like the train left while you were busy reading the paper?

Stealth-Mod.

Posted by Gameboy70 on 03-15-2001 10:09 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
One wonders: Is NCR planning to produce a PocketPC or some other PDA soon? IMO, this is a frivilous suit that doesn't stand a chance of winning, but would potentially eat up time and money.

It's more accurate to say that it doesn't stand much of a chance at winning. It's a sucker bet, like Pascal's Wager. Last year, I interviewed someone over at British Telecom when the company was informing ISPs that it intended to collect royalties from them on the use of hyperlinks (!), which BT claims to have a patent on from 1978. The sense I got from the spokesman (although he didn't actually come out and say this; it's my inference) was that BT was fully aware that it's claim to owning hyperlinks was BS, but in the unlikely event that the claim prevailed in court, the reward was too vast (a couple of bucks from every ISP on the planet) to ignore. So if BT spent $800K -- pocket change for a company of that size -- in litigation, it's no big deal. Fortunately, there's footage of Doug Engelbardt using hypertext in the late sixties, which invalidated BT's claim.

Unfortunately, corporations are regularly encouraged to rummage through their intellectual property archives (NCR probably just rediscovered it's patent, Hoser) for new opportunites to sue others: Rembrandts in the Attic is one book that advocates this practice. IBM and AT&T, among many others, have been doing this for decades. It certainly didn't start with Amazon or NCR.

quote:
Originally posted by bkbk
Wasn't Palm mock-sued (I think the case died) on Graffiti supposedly being "stolen" from some other firm in the last year or so?
I believe you can't patent an "idea" (like a "Wallet PC," PktPC, Palm, Hand, etc.) -- just its execution. Maybe their idea for a PDA (if they had one) sucked.

I think it was IBM that sued Palm over Graffiti -- or more specifically (or broadly, depending on your point of view), character recognition. I don't remember the details of the case; only that Palm prevailed -- probably because the CR algorithms are patented by Jeff Hawkins.

As far as patenting an idea rather than its execution, that's been the whole problem of the 90s. Companies, and individuals like Bill Warman and Jeff Bezos, have deliberately designed their patents to be as broad as possible, blurring the line between an idea and its execution. You're right in theory, but in practice it takes experienced reviewers to discern the line between the acceptable and the absurd, and they usually can't. Many of these patents (like 1-click) shouldn't have been granted in the first place. But the PTO can't find enough qualified reviewers, regardless of how much they're paid (around $250K, I'm told). To be a patent reviewer, you have to have a law degree and and engineering degree, and most of the people who fall in that category have degrees in electrical engineering, not CS.

Anyway, the bottom line is that NCR's suit probably will be thrown out of court. There's prior art: the Apple Newton was based largely on Alan Kay's concept design of the Dynabook from the early seventies. The Palm is as different in size from the Dynabook as it is from "credit card size."

Vertigo has it right.

Posted by BEN on 03-15-2001 10:28 PM:

Since when is a plam pilot "credit card" sized? My prism is defenitly MUCH bigger than a credit card. I don't even think that it's ossible to make a palm pilot that small.

BEN

Posted by sanchan on 03-15-2001 10:52 PM:

If NCR stirred in a little Nestle's Quik, they'd have instant crap. Smells sweet, looks like crap.

Posted by Matthew Nichols on 03-15-2001 11:29 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Gameboy70
I think it was IBM that sued Palm over Graffiti

Actually, I beleive it was Xerox.

__________________
Matt Nichols
[email protected]

Posted by Talldog on 03-15-2001 11:55 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by BEN
Since when is a plam pilot "credit card" sized

Well, that would explain why my wallet's so fat.

__________________
Talldog

Posted by argent on 03-16-2001 12:00 AM:

The NCR patent is on a smart card. The only application Palm ships that has anything to do with what NCR's writing about is Expense, and Expense is a pile of junk. They should be going after Ultrasoft Money...

__________________
Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC<br>
<a href=http://www.taronga.com/~peter/>Ar rug t� barr�g ar do mhact�re inniu?</a>

Posted by bkbk on 03-16-2001 12:08 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Black_Dragon
Look at: http://www.delphion.com/cgi-bin/vie...md/US04634845__ That does look a lot like a Visor, or a Palm Pilot eventho the dimentions aren't anywhere near the same.<snip>

Actually, if ANYthing REALLY "looks like a Visor" -- it's a GameBoy, eh? That's HS's real precursor, if you ask me. But even w/that device (GB), so much time went by before HS advented the SB slot, you could almost say: "Why DIDN'T anybody else think of it?"
But what can be expected next ... if "your" PDA uses a jog-dial ... "no-one else's can"?
How about an On/Off button? Nobody else gets to use one?

This is WAY off-topic, but it reminds me of "beautiful women" -- it's "nice" if you have "similar features" -- but it's a "total package" that rocks the mkt.
Take a show like BayWatch, which was almost UNKNOWN before Pam ... despite killer beauties like Erica Eleniak on the show ... and AFTER Pam left, I believe it's sunk in the ratings -- and now Pam's show is #1 in the world, instead.

It's a combination of many factors that rocks the mkt.

__________________
"Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds." -- Albert Einstein

Posted by Bane on 03-16-2001 12:42 AM:

Just fifteen minutes

Has anyone ever seen a handheld portable device made by NCR. Big fat NOPE. The patents that this lawsuit refers to are here:

http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US04634845__

It does refer to some kind of a smart card technology that ncr has never implimented. The closest pda to that is the rex. The part of the patent that NCR is aledging that is infringed upon is the "portable handheld device for data transactions with a network" or something to that affect. WELL that pretty much makes this a senselessly stupid lawsuit. That refers to just about anything with an lcd and batteries and a processor. SO that means that the

Apple Newton
Sharp Zaurus
A Big Load of wince machines
Psion machines
IBM Workpad
TRGPro
PalmPC Machines
Sony Clie
REX
and ALL laptops ever made

either infringe upon that patent or else there IS prior art and the patent is crap. Scratch that- the patent has nothing to do with any of these devices and the lawsuit is crap.

There is only one problem with this lawsuit and that is that NCR is asking for an injunction against Palm or Handspring manufacturing any new devices. In order to temporarily cripple them up until the lawsuit can be proven to be the load of bullsh*t that it is.

Esentially it is bull**** and is designed to go after smaller company in order to gain a precedent. That way they can go after Psion or Microsoft. This is almost identical to how rambus is behaving; one company going after another claiming that it created a product that it did not.

I would just about pay money to be armed with a bludgening object in a locked room with people who created this lawsuit in order to motivate them explain where they recieved the bad batch of crack that they are smoking and if that seems unreasonable lemme ask you:

Does anyone own a creditcard sized PalmOS device ?

__________________
Bane

Evil Geniuses kick ass.

Posted by speegle on 03-16-2001 12:44 AM:

Patent Office Link

Here's the link to the US Patent Office stuff ...

http://patimg2.uspto.gov/.piw?docid...26RS=PN/4689478

Posted by ByronC on 03-16-2001 01:23 AM:

Hi All,

NCR miss up a long time ago when AT&T took over them

Byron

__________________
<A HREF=http://www.xecu.net/bcollins/index.htm><IMG SRC=http://www.xecu.net/bcollins/BEBOOKEM.GIF>

All times are GMT. The time now is 06:47 PM.

Pages (2): [1] 2 »
Show 20 posts from this thread on one page