VisorCentral.com - Very sad day at school

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Posted by D ev R ay 4Real on 09-17-2001 04:35 AM:

Very sad day at school

In the midst of all of this my Science class opted to make a giant flag that the whole school could sign then we were going to send it off to New York. It took us two periods to complete it ( we were allowed to stay in the class an extra period). By lunch we had it up. We had to quarter it because it was so giant, everyone was signing it saying how sorry they were then in second lunch a kid walked up to it and signed, " F**K the USA. They deserved to die". Im sure he did this to be funny because he doesn't seem like a very angry type but no one thought he was funny. In fact a kid got up and punched him in the face right there.

To mend this we had to remove that whole stripe, and lose about 20 signatures. But it was necessary to do because we wanted to to look good. In third lunch a kid who I believe is gothic (wears all black, paints fingernails black, actually has a mohawk) walked up to the flag and wrote, "F**k America". This kid was the angry type, and I believe he meant it, he got thrown to the ground out of sheer anger almost immediatly by the students. As a result of this we had to remove another row, and one of us had to constantly be standing by the flag to make sure nothing like that was written again.

It just makes me incredibly sad that this single act of kindness we were showing causes so much anger, and that these two kids have absoloutely no regard at all those innocent victims who died.

__________________
God bless the USA! The country I love, and will support at all costs.

Posted by dampeoples on 09-17-2001 04:51 AM:

We could port these cats over to singapore to be caned.

Posted by D ev R ay 4Real on 09-17-2001 04:54 AM:

Thats not such a bad idea. As bad as it sounds on the message board the feelings I and almost the entire student body felt at the time were ten fold of that.

__________________
God bless the USA! The country I love, and will support at all costs.

Posted by VTL on 09-17-2001 04:56 AM:

That's a great gesture, and you and your friends should be proud of yourselves. Don't let a couple of creeps ruin it.

Posted by dampeoples on 09-17-2001 04:57 AM:

The best thing to do would be just like you did, fix his mistake and ignore the rest. Some people just crave attention, some are mean, and some are comedians, but I'm pretty sure deep down inside they were all hurt in some form by the events last week, direct or indirect.
DAX

Posted by D ev R ay 4Real on 09-17-2001 04:58 AM:

Don't worry nothing those creeps could do could ruin our patriotic pride.

__________________
God bless the USA! The country I love, and will support at all costs.

Posted by homer on 09-17-2001 05:15 AM:

quote:
It just makes me incredibly sad that this single act of kindness we were showing causes so much anger, and that these two kids have absoloutely no regard at all those innocent victims who died.

Remember that having the right to say "f*** the USA" is what makes this country so great.

Not to defend what these kids did, but them writing on the flag really had no bearing on whether or not that had any regard for the victims that died. Give them a break. Did any of you ASK why they wrote what they did? Did you give them a chance to defend their actions, or did your classmates judge them without trial?

__________________
We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
-David Byrne

Posted by D ev R ay 4Real on 09-17-2001 05:54 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by homer

Remember that having the right to say "f*** the USA" is what makes this country so great.

Not to defend what these kids did, but them writing on the flag really had no bearing on whether or not that had any regard for the victims that died. Give them a break. Did any of you ASK why they wrote what they did? Did you give them a chance to defend their actions, or did your classmates judge them without trial?

No I don't think anyone did ask them why they did this, because honestly no answer would be acceptable. There is nothing they could tell me that would jusify their actions. If for some reason they have some hatred towards the USA, great. If they feel the need to go around telling everyone that they hate the USA, I wouldn't reccomend it but I guess it is their right. But to write what they did on something as patriotic as the American flag, that is going to be sent off to somewhere in New York ( we haven't decided yet) is simply unacceptable.

__________________
God bless the USA! The country I love, and will support at all costs.

Posted by homer on 09-17-2001 06:12 AM:

(I'm playing devil's advocate tonight)

quote:
But to write what they did on something as patriotic as the American flag

It could be argued that writing "f*** America" on the flag is a very patriotic thing to do. The flag is merely a symbol. Defacing the flag is a merely a symbol too. Both can be seen as good symbols, both can be seen as bad.

Personally, I see the flag as a representation of freedom. Defacing the flag with vulgarities is something that you wouldn't be allowed to do unless this was a free country. Your classmates pummeling a "goth" person for writing a vulgarity on the flag is both racist and repressive (or do I mean opressive?). Your classmates were trying to supress the very freedom that the flag supposedly represents.

All that said, it certainly was in bad taste for them to do it. But I'm sure they had reasons for doing so (whether they were good reasons or not is a different discussion). And not listening to those reasons before judging (and punishing) them is very un-american (or, rather, it is unamerican in theory, in practice, racism, and prejudging people tends to be something a percentage of Americans do all to often). It is also what alienates and pushes people further towards the fringes of society. Let's not do that.

(Granted, this is all in the context of High School. A very disturbing and inexplainable part of many American's lives.)

__________________
We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
-David Byrne

Posted by Toby on 09-17-2001 02:00 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by homer
It could be argued that writing "f*** America" on the flag is a very patriotic thing to do. The flag is merely a symbol. Defacing the flag is a merely a symbol too. Both can be seen as good symbols, both can be seen as bad.

Most people's view of the flag smacks of idolatry to me.

quote:
[...] Your classmates pummeling a "goth" person for writing a vulgarity on the flag is both racist and repressive (or do I mean opressive?).

I'd see it as both repressive _and_ oppressive. Not sure where you'd draw racism from, though? Prejudice? Yeah. Bigotry? Maybe. But racism?

quote:
Your classmates were trying to supress the very freedom that the flag supposedly represents.

Isn't it ironic? Dontcha think?

quote:
All that said, it certainly was in bad taste for them to do it. [...]

Definitely, but if we beat everyone that displayed bad taste to the ground, there'd be an awful lot of people in the hospital.

Posted by vaj123 on 09-17-2001 02:43 PM:

Dev,
Congratulations on your patriotic pride!
Vicki

Posted by homer on 09-17-2001 04:24 PM:

quote:
I'd see it as both repressive _and_ oppressive. Not sure where you'd draw racism from, though? Prejudice? Yeah. Bigotry? Maybe. But racism?

Yea...after I posted that I realized Racism wasn't the right terminology. Prejudice is what I should have used.

quote:
Most people's view of the flag smacks of idolatry to me.

Very true. I really don't understand this whole "I'm waving a flag, therefore I'm now very patriotic" thing going on. I reeks of false sincerity. (NOT that it is, of course, I think a lot of people believe that they are being sincerely patriotic, but waving the flag just isn't doing a whole lot to help/change anything.)

__________________
We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
-David Byrne

Posted by K. Cannon on 09-17-2001 06:43 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by homer
but waving the flag just isn't doing a whole lot to help/change anything.)

I guess most of us don't have much to do that we haven't already done (donated, given blood, prayed and/or mediatated) and waving the flag is about the only thing left we can do to feel like we are doing something.

Also, in a current visual sense, when I see someone who has a flag taped into their car window, hung from house, etc, I know that person is reacting in some sense like me to show support for the injured, even if the injured will never lay their eyes on my particular flag. A sense of community and a common need to do SOMETHING isn't a bad thing, IMHO

Posted by Yorick on 09-17-2001 07:03 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by homer
I really don't understand this whole "I'm waving a flag, therefore I'm now very patriotic" thing going on. I reeks of false sincerity. (NOT that it is, of course, I think a lot of people believe that they are being sincerely patriotic, but waving the flag just isn't doing a whole lot to help/change anything.)

I think it's more of a solidarity thing. This is one of those unifying moments that, for the majority of the population, will tie us together more strongly for a time.
A flag is a potent symbol. Think of how the Spanish sailors felt when they saw the British colors on Nelson's ships as they sailed into Trafalgar. Or the soldiers at Fort McHenry, after being attacked by British cannon, seeing "that the flag was still there."
The U.S. may be the only nation whose anthem is about its flag, instead of its countrymen or land.

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Posted by homer on 09-17-2001 07:06 PM:

Kannon, Yorick:

Good points.

__________________
We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
-David Byrne

Posted by K. Cannon on 09-17-2001 07:10 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by homer
Kannon, Yorick:

Good points.

Thanks--I guess I just understand Dev's desperate desire to "do something" and feel bad that some kids, despite their possible valid points, want to mess it up. If they don't want to particpate, fine, but if the point of the exercise is to send a message of support to the victims, then they should bow out....obviously, if the point of the exercise is generally free-speech then they should be able to write what they want (except school kids aren't supposed to be writing profanity on school projects, but that's way off topic)

Posted by Toby on 09-18-2001 01:42 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Yorick
[...] The U.S. may be the only nation whose anthem is about its flag, instead of its countrymen or land.

If that were explicitly true, I wouldn't consider it a good thing. IMO, the meaning of The Star Spangled Banner is a bit more ephemeral than that.

Posted by D ev R ay 4Real on 09-18-2001 03:53 AM:

Just as an update to this whole little rdeal bot kids were immediatly expelled from the district. Which means they either have to be homeschooled or move to aother district fr he rest of the year.

A angry as I am at them, I thin this was a little harsh, because obviously their lives are already messe up and this will undoubtedly only make it worse. Oh wellmaybe next time they will thinkn beore doing smehting so stupid.

__________________
God bless the USA! The country I love, and will support at all costs.

Posted by homer on 09-18-2001 05:39 AM:

That is horrific! What is wrong with our system? D ev R ay 4Real, what school system is this in? Is there any press on this event?

FYI, there is an excellent book called Geeks written by Jon Katz. A portion of the book talks about how kids that that do not fit into the mold of 'normal' are treated in our school societies. It's not so much how kids treat other that bothers me (kids will be kids) but rather how supposedly responsible and rational thinking adults treat these kids.

While I obviously do not know the entire story behind this, expelling these students was worse that what the students did in the first place, IMHO. It shows a hate and intolerance to those that think differently than others.

Hmm...gee...that's not unlike the terrorist's attitudes, is it?

I'd love to learn more about this story...

__________________
We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
-David Byrne

Posted by george_vc on 09-18-2001 05:54 AM:

Bummer, bad choice

Serves them right to be expelled! The school is not the place for persons to be writing inappropriate language, a poor decision on their part and unfortunate consequences for their "choice" of actions.

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