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-- Visor & Palm are datebooks not computers (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=804)

I thought I'd post this because some people might be wondering about purchasing a Visor and how it compares to other PDA's. I've seen comparisons of the Visor with other Palm devices and with WinCE devices, but none comparing Visor to the Psion.

I hope no one will take what I say as a personal offense, and if you have any suggestions that would address any of the problems I have with the Visor, I'd be grateful to hear about them! I just hope to assist in clarifying what might be reasonable expectations of the device. AvantGo is good, and I had lots of fun for a couple of weeks learning grafitti, but now I have come to the conclusion that while the Visor is pretty good at what it does, it doesn't really do all that much. Certainly not as much as I'd like. My basis of comparison is the Psion 3C, which I used for a year and a half.


Having used my Visor for about 6 weeks now, I just have to say that I'm really disappointed. My Psion was much more versatile right out of the box. Nice little keyboard, no glare problem. The Word app has a big file size & outline & other features, can be used much as MS Word, and you can really go to town typing text in unless your fingers are fairly big. Lots of people say they work on books and novels on their Psions and take notes in class and at meetings, etc. It has a great database app (non relational), dictionary/thesaurus & spell checker, spreadsheet, the datebook app is excellent. Good spreadsheet with lots of functions, more than I ever used. It only had 2MB but I never used half of that with lots of notes, address/phone databases, etc.

I know palm devices are the coming thing, but at this point, out of the box, the Visor is just an expensive alarm clock/datebook. The Rex might be better if you are just going to use it for addresses and appointments--lighter weight. I'm going to have to buy a database and spreadsheet and look around for a word proc app if I want to use it for serious work, though it wouldn't be useful for anything requiring any more data input than light editing. I wanted it because it's about 7 oz lighter than the Psion, but I'm thinking about giving it to my husband and putting up with the extra weight in my purse so I can have the improved functionality. Visor can't dial phone numbers for you like the Psion can, and doesn't have a voice memo recording capability like the Psion does.

The palm devices have a big user base so there are lots of apps out there, and they're cheaper than the Psion apps. However, with the Psion you could do a lot before getting to the point where you would need any 3rd party apps.

I think we are all wanting a reasonably priced device that will do everything, or just about that, and it's not here yet. The Visor sure isn't it. It looks like the Palm platform may be where it eventually comes about, but for now, anyone wanting the versatility of a computer in the palm format isn't going to get it.

Palm computers are computers but they are not in the same market as the Psion 3 series.

It's personal preference. My order of toy acquisition: desktop --> Visor/PalmPilot --> laptop.

The Psion 3c doesn't really fit into the equation for me and a lot of other people. It's just a tad too big. The Rex is a lot smaller, but at the price of functionality. Plus, neither have as much support as Palm OS devices. Price is a consideration as well.

I wanted something with as much functionality but that would still fit into all of my coat pockets easily. If I had to carry a briefcase to hold my organizer, then I'd rather just have a cheap laptop, capable of running Win 98 or Mac OS 9 (if I had the bux).

For you, obviously it seems your priorities and preferences are different.

Reread your post. Ahh... forgot you're female - you have the option of carrying a purse around. (I guess we do too but lets not get into that... ) That does make a difference in how one looks at these things.

Just a note: If you really want to be able to type comfortably, you could always get the Stowaway Portable Keyboard for a full size keyboard, but that means shelling out another $100+, waiting several more months, and lugging around another thing even bigger than the Visor.

I hope to get the Visor to have with me at all times in my pocket, and get a portable keyboard for my briefcase.


[This message has been edited by Eug (edited 12-12-1999).]

Let's not get tied up with semantics. They're all tools. Choose the one that works for you, with the way you need to use it.

The Visor works for me. I don't need a voice memo recorder or the ability to edit Word or Excel documents. Does that mean I don't need a computer in my pocket? No, it means that I don't need a tool that records voice memos or edits Word or Excel documents. What I *do* need is something that (among other things) lets me carry my hospital's formulary and make medical calculations, as well as taking care of mundane tasks like reminding me of conference calls, etc. And most of all, it has to be shirt pocket sized.


[This message has been edited by Axeman (edited 12-12-1999).]

To each his own.

I have read good reviews of the Psion, but it , alas, does not do what I want.

The Visor/Palm does have lots of nice astronomical software already available for it.

And being a programmer by trade, I am not satisfied unless I can write my own custom applications for the unit. I'm looking into Quartus Forth right now.

I want to port my rotating 3-dimensional starmap to the Visor.

First the Visor is a computer. And as such it is expandable. My first computer was a 386 and it came with DOS 5.0 and Windows 3.0. There were the built in accessories of windows, but that was it.

My Visor came with more functionality "out of the box" than the computer did. Granting things have changed alot since '91, but I think this demonstrated my point.

The best part about the Palm Devices is the open operating system, the expandability. I use my Visor with Quicksheet for some powerful Spreadsheet apps. With Pocket Quicken for integration with my home finances. With Hourz Pro for time tracking. i have about 20 games loaded to keep me busy when there is nothing to do. I have built reference libraries from existing websires like http://www.memoware.com for everything from Compaq POST codes to the Kama Sutra (I wonder which is more geeky to have stored on a Visor... I digress...) I use Pasword Store to keep track of all of my passwords. I have Multi Mail pro which I could use to get my mail if I had a modem for the Visor (I had one for my Palm III) There are some limitations on what you can keep in the Memo Pad, but there are utilities to expand it. I actually have not had a problem with it myself. Throw in Palm Print and a few choice Hacks and there is virtually nothing you cannot do.

It is expandable on purpose. I understand some people do not like/want to seek out these solutions or fuss to make them work for you. If the Psion works for you, enjoy. I am a big fan of PalmOS and will stick with it.

I agree that the semantic distinction is rather meaningless, especially since there is a value judgement implied in saying a Palm "isn't a computer."

How many people use their computers to "compute" anyway? Are word processing and email "computing" functions? How many people use spreadsheets just for simple list generation rather than actual calculations? I know lots of people who use desktop PCs who don't know how to get the most out of them, but that doesn't make their machines 'not computers' or what they are doing with them 'not really computing.'

I never had a PDA before but there was no question in my mind that I wanted to work on the Palm platform, especially after I learned how many apps are available for Palm. Whatever your specialty, there's a Palm app out there for you. I work in film and video production. The cinematographers I know use them to calculate depth of field and other technical camera tricks. Producers and production managers use them to manage huge contact lists and schedule projects. And so on. Without functionality that's specific to what you do, what use is a computer of any kind?

ps to ru: How do you like Pocket Quicken? I always heard it sucked, but I am a true Quicken geek and I'd love to have a good pocket version on my visor.

[This message has been edited by Nitpicking Department (edited 12-13-1999).]

As for these devices not being computers...they are what you make them. And the person that turned me on to the palm said use it for what it is: ultimate portability . If you want to do spreadsheets and write novels get a notebook. But if you just occasionally need those abilities, you can't beat the size or flexibility of the palm units.

Mike
hey nitpick,

Try qmate www.qmate.com
and quikbudget www.quikbudget.com
I am the quicken geek and I love that I can keep my budget which auto-loads to qmate that uploads during hotsync to be inported into quicken. (a little learning curve but a great set of programs.



[This message has been edited by GADGETMIKE (edited 12-14-1999).]

I have a Sharp Mobilon 4100 Win/CE device that I use when I need a "computer". It has a built-in modem so I can access my e mail. I can carry Word and Excel files with me for review and (minor) editing. I also tend to leave it in my brief case or my Hotel room when I am traveling because the darn thing is heavy and a battery hog.

I plan to use my Visor for an address book, contacts manager and date book, in other words, every day use. A pocket organizer if you will.

I need the Visor for around town and for use while traveling, while I will use the mobilon only for longer trips when I will need access to my e-mail (I hate lugging my laptop). The larger screen, built in keyboard and built in modem make the Mobilon better for that task.

But, all this does not make the Visor or Palm any less the "computer". Just built for a specific, more narrowly defined task.

So, the Commodore Vic 20 was just a date book (5Kmemory I think). The Commodore 64 was just a date book. I knew engineers who were number crunching on Commodore 64s

I know, I know I'm dating myself. But with all the software out there for the Palm OS I find it hard to say that they're just date books

I think it depends on what you want to call computers. I see many PenIII's used as word processors and e-mail terminals. Are those what computers should do? What do they have to do to get qualified as computers? Has to have a keyboard? Then soon-to-come wearable compters are not computers. Dialing phone numbers are what we want computers to do? Recording? I guess I difinitely do not know what computers are...

How I would love to have my old C64 back! Sigh.

In my opinion, the Visor is a computer. I've got a database program on it, (HanDBase - it's great!) with which I can create my own databases or download others. I've got a star chart program that can show me what's visible in the sky from my location. If I click on a star or object, it tells me what it's called, its magnitude, what constellation it's in, etc. I can draw on my Visor. I can graph rather complicated equations. I can play games. I can plug a modem into it, and connect to the web. I can look at web sites. I can create and read email. I can create documents. I can even get a program that lets me program on my visor. And of course, the organizational stuff - date books, addresses, shopping lists, checking account managers, etc.

Sounds suspiciously like a computer to me.

If I remember correctly, the PalmPilot in speed was just as fast as the 2nd generation Macintosh. The Visor has a CPU, data storage, and I/O. Programs can be added & removed, and there is hardware expansion available. It is a computer.

The PalmOS may not have the features that you are accustomed to, but devices with it are still computers. Why do you think there was a problem with the term PalmPC?

------------------
James Hromadka
VisorCentral.com
Personal Website: http://www.Hromadka.com

Hey, it crashes, requires troubleshooting, gets fatal errors, needs an occasional reboot; not only is it a computer, it's a Windows PC!!

In response to rtalain:

quote:

---

Hey, it crashes, requires troubleshooting, gets fatal errors, needs an occasional reboot; not only is it a computer,
it's a Windows PC!!

---

OK, so my Dad has this 70 lbs. behemoth in his gararge that he made in the '70s that is powered by a submarine transformer and writes to tape (he was in the Homebrewers Club). For display it has some LEDs and you can hook it up to an oscilloscope (sic). It can't do anything my Visor can do, but simple calculations, does that mean it's not a computer?
Just wondering.
(Lately, with the way my Compaq running Win95 has been acting, I don't think it's a computer. )

PDA's are computers. The only difference between your desktop and a PDA is the interface style. PDA's are also datebooks. Giving the actual functionality of the interface, a PDA is designed primarily to be a Datebook and personal informaion tracker. It is not designed for writing novels. With 3rd party additions it can begin to seem a bit more like a word processor, but it still is limiting. I think everyone who considers buying a PDA should keep in mind that these devices are basically efficient datebooks that do a bunch of other cool things on the side. That is how I approach my Visor. It's primary function is for organizing the disarray that I call my life. My visor does some cool things like allow me to view my favorite webpages and to read/respond to e-mail. Those perks are what you are paying the big bucks for. This is also why I cannot fathom paying $450 for a PalmVx. Out of the box it does very little beyond a datebook. Once you register your shareware software and add a couple of harware add-ons it can put you above $600 very quickly! (Yes I am aware that you can get a Vx for less than $450, in fact I know where to get them for ~$350-380). Even the $260 for a Visor is quite expensive for what is does, but I am tech savy and to sooth this need I shell out the dough to pay for it. Did I need it-no, my datebook I got for free when I bought my textbooks this year can handle information also, but I can't play Sim City on it!

Just my thoughts on these devices

BTW -- Vic 20 had 3k of RAM.

Pocket Quicken is great! I love it. It does everything I need it to, there are a few small quirks in the interface.

1. If you create a transaction it saves it, great! If you then use it again with a different account, it will revert to the account ypu used last to enter the transaction. i.e.: Gas for the car. I use whichever Credit Card I can get out of my wallet that has enough of a magnetic strip left to activate the pump. So when I enter
"Amaco" in my payee field then hit the arrow to use the saved version it changes accounts to the last one I used. Even if I specificaly chose the account I wanted to use first. Not really a bug, just quirky.

2. Splits on transfers are a little wierd too. I have an account for "Cash on Hand" So when I visit my local ATM, I record it as a transfer from Checking to Cash on Hand. If there is a bank charge for using their ATM, I like to split the transaction. PQuicken does not really do this. However when you sync the transactions are imported. They do not go directly to the register. You have to "accept" them and you can edit them at this point.

Good Luck

"BTW -- Vic 20 had 3k of RAM."

Off the top of my head I remember 2 Kb RAM, although I'm not 100% sure. (Maybe I'm thinking about my Atari 2600?) I did read an article from a computer magazine that quoted 5 Kb, but I know that's wrong for sure. Anyway, even back then I thought the Vic 20 was a useless computer. It basically did nothing except play a few games. Even the Commodore SuperPET was more useful.

And to think, we are complaining about (potentially) 16384 Kb Visors.