VisorCentral.com - compact flash question....

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VisorCentral.com (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php)
- Springboard Modules (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/forumdisplay.php?forumid=10)
-- compact flash question.... (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=17511)

Posted by cjones on 08-09-2001 10:29 PM:

compact flash question....

Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question, but I'm climbing the learning curve as best I can... I'm looking into getting some kind of CF adapter for my Edge.... and I'm seeing different prices/sites that sell CF cards to plug into the adapter.

I was reading the review on visorcentral of the Innopocket CF adapter (http://www.visorcentral.com/page/0-6-89-2-6.htm), and in one section an article from a Kopsis's FAQ said something that didn't make sense to me:

"The Flash chips in a CF card are not visible to the device that the CF card is plugged into. All that the Visor can "see" is the CF controller chip, which looks exactly like a hard disk controller. Just as your PC or Mac cannot run any programs on the hard disk without first loading them into RAM, the Visor cannot access any programs on the CF card without first loading them into RAM."

Also... in the 'cons' part of the visorcentral article, it lists "Databases limited in size to Pilot Memory". So am I correct in saying that even if I've got a 32Mb CF card in my adapter (let's say I'm using only 16Mb of it).... and the 8Mb RAM in my Edge is full, I can't check out (or whatever the correct terminology is) anything out of my CF card to read/play/whatever because my Edge memory is full?

That's what it looks like to me upon first reading into things. I'm hoping I'm missing something, because if so I've got to police myself to make sure I always keep free in my Edge at least enough memory to check out the largest application/database/whatever from my CF card and that sounds annoying.

Thanks for your thoughts folks...

-chris

Posted by Thunderbird291 on 08-10-2001 01:57 AM:

I think you want the Memplug for CompactFlash. There is a review here on VC-http://www.visorcentral.com/page/0-6-112-1-6.htm. I beleive the application "PiDirect" can read from CF cards without copying them into RAM, just like the 8 and 16MB flash modules can. However, I don't own one, so if anyone else can comment I'd be glad.

Posted by ebcadad on 08-10-2001 06:17 AM:

Re: compact flash question....

quote:
Originally posted by cjones
Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question, but I'm climbing the learning curve as best I can... I'm looking into getting some kind of CF adapter for my Edge.... and I'm seeing different prices/sites that sell CF cards to plug into the adapter.

I was reading the review on visorcentral of the Innopocket CF adapter (http://www.visorcentral.com/page/0-6-89-2-6.htm), and in one section an article from a Kopsis's FAQ said something that didn't make sense to me:

"The Flash chips in a CF card are not visible to the device that the CF card is plugged into. All that the Visor can "see" is the CF controller chip, which looks exactly like a hard disk controller. Just as your PC or Mac cannot run any programs on the hard disk without first loading them into RAM, the Visor cannot access any programs on the CF card without first loading them into RAM."

Also... in the 'cons' part of the visorcentral article, it lists "Databases limited in size to Pilot Memory". So am I correct in saying that even if I've got a 32Mb CF card in my adapter (let's say I'm using only 16Mb of it).... and the 8Mb RAM in my Edge is full, I can't check out (or whatever the correct terminology is) anything out of my CF card to read/play/whatever because my Edge memory is full?

That's what it looks like to me upon first reading into things. I'm hoping I'm missing something, because if so I've got to police myself to make sure I always keep free in my Edge at least enough memory to check out the largest application/database/whatever from my CF card and that sounds annoying.

Thanks for your thoughts folks...

-chris

I think you can order InnoPcoket FlashPlus module,because it can support VFS now,even just the beta version,because i have prism with FlashPlus + VFS 1.4.2 it so graet can be run application from my 64MB memory card directly,they also say they will free download to all innoPocket customer when it finish.

Posted by cjones on 08-10-2001 01:12 PM:

Ok.... I'm still a litle confused. I've now read the two visorcentral reviews on the MemPlug for SmartMedia (http://www.visorcentral.com/page/0-6-101-1-6.htm) and the MemPlug for CF (http://www.visorcentral.com/page/0-6-112-1-6.htm). Since I don't have spare SM or CF cards lying around, and any requirements to fulfill, it seems like a toss up on picking one.

But I'm reading conflicting reports in these two reviews and the reviews/FAQ's in my original post on my overall question - am I limited with what I can run in my SD or CF card by what memory I have left in my Edge? Can I run things directly from the SD or CF cards, or do they have to be loaded into Visor memory... the way a hard drive works (which is the analogy that I read...)?

Thanks for the help so far...

-chris

Posted by dkessler on 08-10-2001 01:27 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by cjones
But I'm reading conflicting reports in these two reviews and the reviews/FAQ's in my original post on my overall question - am I limited with what I can run in my SD or CF card by what memory I have left in my Edge? Can I run things directly from the SD or CF cards, or do they have to be loaded into Visor memory... the way a hard drive works (which is the analogy that I read...)?

Back in the memory card adapter "middle ages" (like about three months ago

) you had to move entire databases back and forth between CF and RAM. In that case, you had to keep enough RAM free for the largest database you wanted to be able to move.

Now there are solutions (VFS from Kopsis and PiDirect from PIT) that allow the data to be moved back and forth automatically in smaller chunks. I don't want to start the debate again about which solution is better (there's plenty of that in the forum archives if you really want to read it) but both will allow well designed apps to use databases on the CF card that are larger than available RAM.

As for keeping apps themselves on the card, VFS still requires that you have enough free RAM to copy the whole .PRC file. PiDirect has the ability to bring in only parts of the .PRC file (though in many cases it still has to bring in a large percentage of it). But since the .PRC files themselves seldom exceed 300KB, keeping a chunk of RAM open for them (you'll only ever have one in RAM at a time) is really not a big deal.

To learn more about Kopsis' VFS solution (currently in public beta), see the FlashAdapter-forum message archives at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flashadapter-forum

__________________
<ul><li>Dave Kessler<br>President - Kopsis, Inc.</li></ul>

Posted by cjones on 08-10-2001 01:40 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by dkessler

Back in the memory card adapter "middle ages" (like about three months ago ) you had to move entire databases back and forth between CF and RAM. In that case, you had to keep enough RAM free for the largest database you wanted to be able to move.

Now there are solutions (VFS from Kopsis and PiDirect from PIT) that allow the data to be moved back and forth automatically in smaller chunks. I don't want to start the debate again about which solution is better (there's plenty of that in the forum archives if you really want to read it) but both will allow well designed apps to use databases on the CF card that are larger than available RAM.

As for keeping apps themselves on the card, VFS still requires that you have enough free RAM to copy the whole .PRC file. PiDirect has the ability to bring in only parts of the .PRC file (though in many cases it still has to bring in a large percentage of it). But since the .PRC files themselves seldom exceed 300KB, keeping a chunk of RAM open for them (you'll only ever have one in RAM at a time) is really not a big deal.

To learn more about Kopsis' VFS solution (currently in public beta), see the FlashAdapter-forum message archives at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flashadapter-forum

Wow.... I feel special getting a reply from the president of Kopsis!

You definetly cleared some things up for me... and considering how fast the memory card adapter technology is moving, and since I'm not hitting the 8Mb wall on my Edge yet, I think I'll just stay on the sidelines and see what new whiz-bang module or Handspring PDA comes out in the near future and possibly drop some cash then.

Thanks!

-chris

Posted by dessa on 08-22-2001 09:31 PM:

Effect on Prism Battery Life?

Greetings ebcadad (and any others with FlashPlus and Prism).
Have you noticed any affect on battery life?
I'm thinking of buying one of these puppies with my tax rebate.
Any other problems or suggestions
Thanks,
dennis

Posted by ebcadad on 08-23-2001 07:47 AM:

Re: Effect on Prism Battery Life?

quote:
Originally posted by dessa
Greetings ebcadad (and any others with FlashPlus and Prism).
Have you noticed any affect on battery life?
I'm thinking of buying one of these puppies with my tax rebate.
Any other problems or suggestions
Thanks,
dennis

I feel my prism battery life so far is normal.Besides i know many software company release VFS support now,like SilverScreen/JFile/PowerRun/KCDC/LauncherIII/JackBack.......it's so great for my prism. :-)

Posted by RoofusPennymore on 08-23-2001 11:19 PM:

Hey cjones, don't feel bad. I had the same questions. This thread helped clear some things up for me too. I just ordered the FlashPlus.

Posted by snippet on 08-24-2001 07:27 PM:

I've got the FlashPlus in my prism and love it. You can move a lot of the apps you've got in your visor off to the CF card and have all that extra space to move apps in/out. Right now, I've got just under 5MB free where before I had just under 1MB free.

The number of VFS-aware apps is quickly growing. The yahoo group posts which apps are working solutions, and which are in beta, etc.

I haven't noticed a significant drain on battery life, but that is dependant on the brand CF card you buy, SanDisk appears to be the best choice (with a price of course).

And, which is most important for me, Dave Kessler is awesome, brilliant, and responsive. His posts are easy to understand and helpful. I am sure he's extremely busy in his work, but his posts are well thought out and insightful. He's a great guy.

__________________
and so it goes ...

Posted by PiDeveloper on 08-25-2001 03:04 AM:

PiVFS manager is available.

Hi all,

Just to let you know PiVFS manager is available for free download in MemPlug's webpage.

And a compatible list can be found in our forum.

Regards,
PiDeveloper

__________________
product page: http://www.memplug.com
product forum: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/memplug

Posted by OrangeDeluxe on 08-25-2001 04:27 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by dkessler

Back in the memory card adapter "middle ages" (like about three months ago ) you had to move entire databases back and forth between CF and RAM. In that case, you had to keep enough RAM free for the largest database you wanted to be able to move.

Now there are solutions (VFS from Kopsis and PiDirect from PIT) that allow the data to be moved back and forth automatically in smaller chunks. I don't want to start the debate again about which solution is better (there's plenty of that in the forum archives if you really want to read it) but both will allow well designed apps to use databases on the CF card that are larger than available RAM.

As for keeping apps themselves on the card, VFS still requires that you have enough free RAM to copy the whole .PRC file. PiDirect has the ability to bring in only parts of the .PRC file (though in many cases it still has to bring in a large percentage of it). But since the .PRC files themselves seldom exceed 300KB, keeping a chunk of RAM open for them (you'll only ever have one in RAM at a time) is really not a big deal.

To learn more about Kopsis' VFS solution (currently in public beta), see the FlashAdapter-forum message archives at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flashadapter-forum

I've already pre-ordered the FlashPlus adapter module. But what I would like to know if BackupBuddyVFS will work with a CF card using this new module. I'd also love to find a RAM to CF backup app that will work with the FlashPlus as there apparently isn't backup app included with this new module. Any suggestions?

__________________
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Posted by dkessler on 08-27-2001 03:15 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by OrangeDeluxe

I've already pre-ordered the FlashPlus adapter module. But what I would like to know if BackupBuddyVFS will work with a CF card using this new module. I'd also love to find a RAM to CF backup app that will work with the FlashPlus as there apparently isn't backup app included with this new module. Any suggestions?

BackupBuddyVFS does work with the FlashPlus module using our VFSHelper software. There are some display issues if you are running it on a device with OS 3.1, but it does backup and restore. A few minor incompatibilities have been reported, but we're looking into them and hope to have them resolved in the next VFSHelper release.

__________________
<ul><li>Dave Kessler<br>President - Kopsis, Inc.</li></ul>

Posted by OrangeDeluxe on 08-28-2001 02:16 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by dkessler

BackupBuddyVFS does work with the FlashPlus module using our VFSHelper software. There are some display issues if you are running it on a device with OS 3.1, but it does backup and restore. A few minor incompatibilities have been reported, but we're looking into them and hope to have them resolved in the next VFSHelper release.

Thanks much Dave!
I kind of figured there would be a way to get BBVFS to work with the new adapter...If the display is "funky" it doesn't matter to me, as long as the apps do their respective jobs. Supposedly my FlashPlus will ship after PalmGear gets 'em in stock 8/30. If I have an issues with the software I know where to go, yeah?

Thanks again...

__________________
"This world is totally Fugazi." -Fish (Marillion)

Posted by dkessler on 08-28-2001 03:09 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by OrangeDeluxe

If I have an issues with the software I know where to go, yeah?

Absolutely

You may also want to peruse the message archives of the FlashAdapter-forum (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flash...-forum/messages). There's a ton of discussion in there about what works and what to watch out for.

__________________
<ul><li>Dave Kessler<br>President - Kopsis, Inc.</li></ul>

Posted by Mark Squires on 08-28-2001 06:43 PM:

ibm hard drive

IBM has a new hard drive that looks like a flash module, but we're talking a GIG here.

ANyone know if it can be used in a Prism?

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Posted by OrangeDeluxe on 08-29-2001 06:00 AM:

Thanks again & also sorry for the typo...I'll let you know how it goes, especialy with BackupBuddyVFS. I'm ready to use CSpot too, as I seem to be one of the minority who can enjoy e-books on a palm-sized screen!

__________________
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Posted by dkessler on 08-29-2001 12:24 PM:

Re: ibm hard drive

quote:
Originally posted by Mark Squires
IBM has a new hard drive that looks like a flash module, but we're talking a GIG here.

ANyone know if it can be used in a Prism?

All of IBM's MicroDrives draw too much power to be used in existing CF adapters. I know of one developer who has been working on a self-powered adapter that is compatible with the MicroDrive, but I have no idea when (or if) that will ever be released.

__________________
<ul><li>Dave Kessler<br>President - Kopsis, Inc.</li></ul>

Posted by mshe on 08-29-2001 03:52 PM:

Re: ibm hard drive

quote:
Originally posted by Mark Squires
IBM has a new hard drive that looks like a flash module, but we're talking a GIG here.

ANyone know if it can be used in a Prism?

Nope won't work, uses too much power.

The Microdrive is Type II so I don't think it'll fit in the current CF adapters anyways.

Posted by flips13 on 08-29-2001 04:24 PM:

Re: Re: ibm hard drive

quote:
Originally posted by mshe
The Microdrive is Type II so I don't think it'll fit in the current CF adapters anyways.

There is (was) a Type II MatchBook drive available that would accept either Type I or Type II CF for an additional $4.00.

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