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Posted by Toby on 03-26-2003 04:59 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by KRamsauer
So you're a protectionist from a purely self-interest perspective (already objected to by me)

I'm not sure where you're pulling that from. I'm not protectionist at all. If I were, I think it unlikely that I'd be driving a Japanese car (with another in the garage). What I am saying, though, is that an economy based solely upon service is based upon a shaky foundation and leaves itself wide open to the fickle winds of change. But, it's obvious you're just being difficult.

quote:
but where do you place the importance of other countries who depend on us for trade?

It depends on the country.

quote:
It has been conclusively demonstrated (to me, at least) that trade is mutually beneficial.

I never said it wasn't.

quote:
This hints at my argument that Western trade policies have killed millions of Africans over the years.

I think Western charity policies have probably killed just as many. In the words of Sam Kinison, "we shouldn't be sending them food. We should be sending them U-Hauls and move them where the food is."

Posted by KRamsauer on 03-26-2003 05:10 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
I'm not sure where you're pulling that from. I'm not protectionist at all. If I were, I think it unlikely that I'd be driving a Japanese car (with another in the garage). What I am saying, though, is that an economy based solely upon service is based upon a shaky foundation and leaves itself wide open to the fickle winds of change. But, it's obvious you're just being difficult.

The "However, I think in the end, we'd wind up better off because of it. " comment made me think as much.
On a side note, I'm saddened we have to go to war to help people in the third world while merely opening markets and allowing farmers to go out of business (flat subsidies, not marginal protection would accomplish the same good without having the farmers starve) would do much more.

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Posted by K. Cannon on 03-26-2003 05:21 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by stanne
I think this shows how little cultural intelligence the Americans have.

The term "french fries" has nothing to do with French (from France). It comes from the verb "to french" which means (or at least meant) 'to cut into lengthwise pieces'. And, it were the Belgians who invented the french fries. You can read the whole story on www.belgianfries.com.

Gee, thanks for the help, there sport. "It were the Belgians"...? Perhaps someone's grammatical intelligence is questionable, as well.

quote:
If I had the choice between a fat burger from McDonalds and a fine French wine, I know which one to choose...

Depends on if you are suffering from hunger or thirst, I would imagine. Comparing hamburgers to wine is like comparing, well, hamburgers to wine.

Posted by Toby on 03-26-2003 05:33 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by KRamsauer
The "However, I think in the end, we'd wind up better off because of it. " comment made me think as much.

That's your prejudice towards me shining through. Thinking that we'd be better off by being less dependent overall does not equate to we shouldn't have any trade with other countries or that we should enact a protectionist government program. As a consumer, I tend to buy based on quality of goods weighed in with overall value for cost. Origin of item is rarely on the radar. That being said, if things come to producing good X locally and having to pay a higher price as opposed to sacrificing sovereignty to appease a boycotting former trade partner, I'd lean more towards the former. While I think boycotts on either 'side' a bit silly and extremist at this point, both 'sides' are fully within their prerogative to be as silly as they want to be.

quote:
On a side note, I'm saddened we have to go to war to help people in the third world while merely opening markets and allowing farmers to go out of business (flat subsidies, not marginal protection would accomplish the same good without having the farmers starve) would do much more.

But but but what about the people who depend on the grain that those subsidized farmers overproduce?

Posted by KRamsauer on 03-26-2003 06:03 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
That's your prejudice towards me shining through

It takes guts (and ignorance) to call someone prejudice because they assume you want to do something that you believe would make us better off...

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Posted by Toby on 03-26-2003 07:24 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by KRamsauer
It takes guts (and ignorance) to call someone prejudice because they assume you want to do something that you believe would make us better off...

And it takes prejudice (founded out of ignorance and apparent lack of comprehension) to so drastically misunderstand what exactly someone believes and then further assume that they want to do any particular thing based on that misunderstanding. But again, you're already predisposed to certain assumptions about me, so what's the point.

Posted by KRamsauer on 03-26-2003 08:52 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
And it takes prejudice (founded out of ignorance and apparent lack of comprehension) to so drastically misunderstand what exactly someone believes and then further assume that they want to do any particular thing based on that misunderstanding. But again, you're already predisposed to certain assumptions about me, so what's the point.

You continue to amaze me. It seems reasonable to me that if someone says "I think we'd be better without X" that they would actually be in favor of doing away with X.

__________________
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Posted by Toby on 03-26-2003 10:13 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by KRamsauer
You continue to amaze me. It seems reasonable to me that if someone says "I think we'd be better without X" that they would actually be in favor of doing away with X.

My position is more in the vein of 'that which does not kill me makes me stronger'. You are taking it as a request to be killed.

Posted by KRamsauer on 03-26-2003 10:31 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
My position is more in the vein of 'that which does not kill me makes me stronger'. You are taking it as a request to be killed.

Oh, but I wanted to "liberate" you!

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Posted by ToolkiT on 03-27-2003 02:16 AM:

Ok, boys take it easy...

On Kramsauer's defense I can understand how he misinterpreted your post, at first I read it that way too...
Toby clarified his stance so lets shake hands and play nice again

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Posted by KRamsauer on 03-27-2003 02:29 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by ToolkiT
Ok, boys take it easy...

On Kramsauer's defense I can understand how he misinterpreted your post, at first I read it that way too...
Toby clarified his stance so lets shake hands and play nice again

You have too little faith in us. Look at our games from previous thread and you'll realize there's nothing to worry about here.

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Posted by ToolkiT on 03-27-2003 02:58 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by KRamsauer
You have too little faith in us. Look at our games from previous thread and you'll realize there's nothing to worry about here.

Thats what you say now, I've got intellegence that shows that you have plans to invade toby's backyard to gain control ove his BBQ

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Posted by Toby on 03-27-2003 03:05 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by ToolkiT
Thats what you say now, I've got intellegence that shows that you have plans to invade toby's backyard to gain control ove his BBQ

Cher, I got rid of the BBQ pit when my communist PhD acquaintance tried to burn my house down with it. Unfortunately, I have no evidence to prove that I no longer have this weapon of mass destruction, so PETA will just have to accept my word for it.

Posted by ToolkiT on 03-27-2003 03:50 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
Cher, I got rid of the BBQ pit when my communist PhD acquaintance tried to burn my house down with it. Unfortunately, I have no evidence to prove that I no longer have this weapon of mass destruction, so PETA will just have to accept my word for it.

That does it! Krammy, send it those pork chop missiles!

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Posted by EricG on 03-27-2003 08:27 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
For all those laughing at the 'freedom fries' and Dixie Chicks debacles, I'm wondering if you find this just as laughable.

I find it unsurprising and equally absurd.. I have to give the Europeans credit in that it isn't their respective elected officials do it, its the people themselves atleast their politicians are smart enough not to waste time and money on such nonsense.. and in that respect I can give them due credit compared to what's going on in this country.

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Posted by K. Cannon on 03-27-2003 02:58 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by ToolkiT
That does it! Krammy, send it those pork chop missiles!

Pork chop missiles!?

I, too, have WMD!! Fire away!!

Posted by KRamsauer on 03-27-2003 03:21 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by ToolkiT

Thats what you say now, I've got intellegence that shows that you have plans to invade toby's backyard to gain control ove his BBQ

Who told you? I'm sick of the high price of barbeque. I'll have to find some other way...

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Posted by Toby on 03-27-2003 03:32 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by K. Cannon
Pork chop missiles!?

I, too, have WMD!! Fire away!!

So, you infidels are showing your true colors by firing items prohibited by my beliefs. You will pay for this in the next world.

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