VisorCentral.com - horrifying Windows experience

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Posted by Yorick on 05-31-2001 04:43 PM:

*whirrr* (that's my can opener. here's the worms.)

I use a Mac G4 at home. I'm aware that much of the world-at-large uses Wintel computers.
I'm at the computer lab of the computer training place I've been attending. I emailed a "zip" file (encoded using ZipIt, the Zip utility for the Mac) to myself and discovered when I tried to open it here that the copy of WinZip was missing several parts. I diligently downloaded each missing file (there were 8) and finally got the program to run, where it immediately went thru a series of the usual Microsoft helper screens instead of just unzipping my file. arrgh!

Why would a software engineer program a simple application to use multiple, easily-trashed exteporaneous files and be excessively complicated for just a simple procedure?
Is there some element of logic I've never learned that contributes to this sort of thing?
I know about (and suffer from) Microsoft bloat, but ye gads, this was too much. I'm so glad I use a computer I don't have to fight with.

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Posted by bblue on 05-31-2001 05:05 PM:

Welcome!

Welcome to the club, fellow Mac user.

Now you realize why people who hate computers usually use Windows.

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Posted by ashmed on 05-31-2001 05:09 PM:

Those extra files are probably libraries of functions. Having them as extraneous files and not included in teh program allows other programs to use the libraries as well. So if there's a library X that has a few functions that are needed by winzip and then another program can share X with winzip and not have to duplicate the same code. Thus using less space on your hard drive.

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Posted by creole on 05-31-2001 05:21 PM:

ashmed...

you might want to try using Stuffit to create a ZIP file. I have never had a problem opening a Mac Zip file (created by Stuffit) in Windows.

Posted by ashmed on 05-31-2001 05:24 PM:

Creole....
Yorik has the mac....
I have a PC....

Posted by Yorick on 05-31-2001 05:31 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by creole
ashmed...

you might want to try using Stuffit to create a ZIP file. I have never had a problem opening a Mac Zip file (created by Stuffit) in Windows.

Creole, do you mean Stuffit Deluxe or DropStuff?
I was not aware Stuffit could *make* Zips, though it does decompress them just fine.

I didn't have any trouble with the actual unstuffing, just having to locate and add all thoses DLL's and help files, then wading thru the "I'll make it easier for you by holding your hand!" wizard windows.
Even after it was "ready" it still ran me thru a wizard when I went to actually unstuff (unzip, sorry, Mac prejudice here) the file.

On the Mac I drop a file on Unstuffit, DropStuff, or ZipIt and in ten seconds or so I'm done.
I've been using computers for twenty years. I don't need my hand held. (I do need my handheld, but that's another issue.)

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Posted by na2rboy on 05-31-2001 06:24 PM:

Microsoft bashing is hip

- Microsoft does not make Winzip.

- I have downloaded and installed Winzip on many computers, and it is not necessary to download multiple parts to make the program work. Just go here, and click download now. All needed files will be downloaded.

- Winzip has the wizard for novice users, and the standard interface for non-novice users. It is just a matter of turning the wizard off. There are also many other unzipping programs compatible with Windows to choose from if you don't like either of the Winzip interfaces. In fact, WinME has unzipping built in.

Posted by homer on 05-31-2001 06:43 PM:

quote:
Creole, do you mean Stuffit Deluxe or DropStuff?

DropZip: http://www.aladdinsys.com/dropzip/maclogin.html

Much better than ZipIt.

As for the multiple files issue, I'm assuming that they were all DLLs. DLLs are a pain, but aren't a whole lot different than Extensions on a Mac. Note that stuffit on the Mac is made up of a handful of files and extensions.

When one has problems with DLLs it is usually due to sloppy programming and not necessarily due to Windows, itself.

ANY lab computer is going to be troublesome...Mac or PC.

As for the Wizards, well, welcome to the world of PCs. A lot of programmers are too lazy to make usable and intuitive interfaces. Instead of fixing bad interfaces, they tend to say 'oh...we'll just make a wizard for that'.

Wizards penalize experienced users and cripple new users. The concept of wizards is a good one, but the implementation that is typically used is NOT.

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Posted by Yorick on 05-31-2001 07:04 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by na2rboy
- Microsoft does not make Winzip.

okeydoke. I didn't pay attention, so I sit corrected.

quote:
- I have downloaded and installed Winzip on many computers, and it is not necessary to download multiple parts to make the program work.

The program already existed on the lab computer, but was missing all its "parts." I didn't know it was going to be so many parts, because each time I tried to run it, it would tell me another missing file. It was like having to make a separate trip to the store for each ingredient in the sauce.

quote:
- Winzip has the wizard for novice users, and the standard interface for non-novice users. It is just a matter of turning the wizard off. There are also many other unzipping programs compatible with Windows to choose from if you don't like either of the Winzip interfaces. In fact, WinME has unzipping built in.

It's WinNT here. WinZip was already on the computer, I'd have preferred PKUnzip which I've used in the past (and find easy to use), but whadyagoando.
Assuming PKUnzip still exists.

quote:
Originally posted by homer
DropZip: http://www.aladdinsys.com/dropzip/maclogin.html

Much better than ZipIt.

I'll come back and pick tht up when I get home (if I don't already have it and don't know it!

)
I only need it when I need to compress for Windows users anyway.

quote:
As for the multiple files issue, I'm assuming that they were all DLLs.

Five DLL's, three help files, a .com and a "pif" (alias to us Maccies). and a partridge in a pear tree.

quote:
DLLs are a pain, but aren't a whole lot different than Extensions on a Mac. Note that stuffit on the Mac is made up of a handful of files and extensions.

When one has problems with DLLs it is usually due to sloppy programming and not necessarily due to Windows, itself.

ANY lab computer is going to be troublesome...Mac or PC.

aye. I agree on all three counts. I knew in the back of my mind about Stuffit, but guess I was too frazzed over my annoyance to think about it.

I once repaired someone's virus afflicted Windows machine simply by replacing a corrupted DLL that the startup sequence was complaining about. (The virus had already been cleaned up, this was the aftermath.)

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Posted by homer on 05-31-2001 07:42 PM:

On last thought...I try and get people to use Stuffit these days as opposed to ZIP files. PC and Mac people can easily download Stuffit expander for free.

Stuffit tends to have better compression and better user interfaces, IMHO.

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Posted by JHromadka on 05-31-2001 08:36 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by homer
On last thought...I try and get people to use Stuffit these days as opposed to ZIP files. PC and Mac people can easily download Stuffit expander for free.

Stuffit tends to have better compression and better user interfaces, IMHO.

Are there free Stuffit compressors on both Mac and PC? I'd like to start doing that, and maybe it will be easier than WinZip (which is a good app) which my dad still has trouble with.

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Posted by Galley_SimRacer on 05-31-2001 09:41 PM:

"Horrifying Windows experience" - isn't that redundant?

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Posted by timbob on 05-31-2001 09:57 PM:

It sounds to me that you didn't have a "Horrifying Windows Experience" but you had a run in with a Windows machine that was badly "hosed"

It sounds like someone deleted some of the wrong files on that machine at one time. Which is a downside to a computer in a training room that 100's of people have probably used.

If I started deleting files from your Macs do you think they would still function properly the next time you sat down?

Posted by homer on 05-31-2001 10:12 PM:

quote:
Are there free Stuffit compressors on both Mac and PC?

No. Only decomressors.

The compressors you need to pay for, though I do believe they may only be nag-ware.

I wasn't aware of any free ZIP compressors on the PC side either.

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Posted by Yorick on 06-01-2001 07:14 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by homer
On last thought...I try and get people to use Stuffit these days as opposed to ZIP files. PC and Mac people can easily download Stuffit expander for free.

Stuffit tends to have better compression and better user interfaces, IMHO.

My brother, who once worked in IT, has been unwilling to allow for multi-platform accessibility; it's horribly irritating. If I neglect to format a disk to Windows before sending him stuff I get grief 'cause he can't read it.
plus, for a couple years the only Mac I had access to was my PerformaMac at home, which lacked a CD-ROM drive and a printer (I wasn't willing to spring for one). Very thankful Macs can easily read PC disks; I just hauled stuff to and fro. I don't do that anymore unless I want laser quality output.

I'd love to have people adapt to me instead of the other way around.

On the compressors, DropStuff is nagware; it claims you only get 15 days but I'm still using it a year since getting the G4. (plus I just got the recent update.)

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Posted by Yorick on 06-01-2001 07:18 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by timbob
It sounds to me that you didn't have a "Horrifying Windows Experience" but you had a run in with a Windows machine that was badly "hosed"

It sounds like someone deleted some of the wrong files on that machine at one time. Which is a downside to a computer in a training room that 100's of people have probably used.

I'm pretty sure they use Norton Ghost to keep the lab machines consistent, but I don't know how that affects the "C" drive. Point taken though.

quote:
If I started deleting files from your Macs do you think they would still function properly the next time you sat down?

well, aside from my desire to bust the fingers of anyone who messes with my computer ...

depends on the files. This is why I backup at least once a week.

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