VisorCentral.com - Straw Poll Time

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Posted by tantousha on 07-15-2002 05:10 AM:

Straw Poll Time

For anybody that remembers the heated political debate that took place in these boards a month ago, I've decided to run a straw poll and settle it for once and for all.
So I give you this question: If an election were held today (ok tomorrow for those of you across the dateline), would you vote Democrat or Republican?

To make the Americans happy I have created seperate answers for foreigners because we know they are mostly Democrat. Also those other parties are not included in this straw poll...merely because if they only get something like 2% of the populations vote, they aren't going to be getting much here.
Alex.

Posted by ToolkiT on 07-15-2002 07:49 AM:

Re: Straw Poll Time

Thanx for the special catagory for little old me

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Posted by tantousha on 07-15-2002 07:53 AM:

Well, your dutch, living in Australia and knowledgable in American politics. I figured someone as diverse as you needed to be part of the leadership race...
Alex.

Posted by Toby on 07-15-2002 12:27 PM:

Re: Straw Poll Time

quote:
Originally posted by tantousha
For anybody that remembers the heated political debate that took place in these boards a month ago, I've decided to run a straw poll and settle it for once and for all.

There are a few more options missing. I, for one, am highly unlikely to vote Republican _or_ Democrat in the next election.

quote:
So I give you this question: If an election were held today (ok tomorrow for those of you across the dateline), would you vote Democrat or Republican?

Anyone who can answer that question is obviously a Bush supporter or a yellow dog. Nobody even knows who the Democratic candidate is going to be yet. You also totally ignore any other parties out there (Green, Reform, Libertarian, etc.).

quote:
To make the Americans happy I have created seperate answers for foreigners because we know they are mostly Democrat.

How could you 'know' that? Despite the constant calling of the Democratic party as pinko leftists, they're fairly moderate liberals in practice (converse is also true of the Republicans).

quote:
Also those other parties are not included in this straw poll...merely because if they only get something like 2% of the populations vote, they aren't going to be getting much here.

Some of them actually get significantly better than that, and you have no idea how many 'third-party' people may or may not be here. Just as a way of demonstration, how about everybody that thinks _both_ the Republicans and Democrats suck votes for ToolkiT?

Posted by dampeoples on 07-15-2002 01:02 PM:

Toolkit for President

Posted by ToolkiT on 07-15-2002 01:24 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by dampeoples
Toolkit for President

Whoohoo I'm winning the election... eeh poll.. and I didn't even cheat...

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Posted by ernieba1 on 07-15-2002 01:40 PM:

Look at Toolkit. There's an IMPOSTER! MULTIPLE IMPOSTERS!

Anyway, a better system for the foreign votes would have been "liberal" or "conservitive" and there should have been two "others", a "liberal other" or "conservitive" other.

Question: If the election was Gore vs. Dole, would there be mass suicides after each debate? Who would be able to sit through one??? Ugh.

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Posted by Toby on 07-15-2002 02:18 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by ernieba1
[...] Anyway, a better system for the foreign votes would have been "liberal" or "conservitive" and there should have been two "others", a "liberal other" or "conservitive" other. [...]

Those would be even more meaningless since 'liberal' and 'conservative' only mean something within the context of a known society. A 'liberal' in the USSR would have been someone who wanted democracy and capitalism. A 'conservative' would have wanted authoritarian state socialism. Of course, that also ignores people who don't fit into either camp very well (e.g. Catholics who tend to be morally conservative, but socially and economically liberal).

Posted by Madkins007 on 07-15-2002 04:21 PM:

If your taste test is between Coke and Pepsi, are the results valid? Will you have any clue how many prefer RC, Dr Pepper, 7-Up, Yoo-Hoo, Gatorade, etc.?

Unfortunately, this is sort of the situation we have in America. Millions of us are not really represented by the two exisiting parties, but our system is sorta skewed in their favor. Other parties exist, but there are a lot of hurdles they have to overcome to inculded on the ballot.

Personally, I think it would be sorta cool to have each voter take a small test to determine party affiliation (sorta like the "Worlds Smallest Political Quiz" http://www.self-gov.org/lp-quiz.shtml) and then actually register for the party that really reflects your views! Something like that may wake people up a bit out of this 'republican/democrat' coma most American voters are in!

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Posted by Toby on 07-15-2002 04:47 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Madkins007
If your taste test is between Coke and Pepsi, are the results valid?

That depends on how the survey is conducted. He's not asking 'which do you prefer out of these two?' He's asking 'if an election was held today, who would you vote for?' (well, not exactly since not everyone that answers could even vote, but...) Neither of those choices apply.

quote:
Will you have any clue how many prefer RC, Dr Pepper, 7-Up, Yoo-Hoo, Gatorade, etc.?

Actually, any marketing survey worth its salt _would_ ask those very questions.

quote:
Unfortunately, this is sort of the situation we have in America. Millions of us are not really represented by the two exisiting parties, but our system is sorta skewed in their favor. Other parties exist, but there are a lot of hurdles they have to overcome to inculded on the ballot.

And simply accepting the status quo and not speaking up about it is going to change nothing. Only by raising questions and building awareness to 'third party' alternatives can 'The System' be changed. For all its flaws, that's one of the great things about it. It _can_ be changed.

quote:
Personally, I think it would be sorta cool to have each voter take a small test to determine party affiliation (sorta like the "Worlds Smallest Political Quiz" http://www.self-gov.org/lp-quiz.shtml) and then actually register for the party that really reflects your views! Something like that may wake people up a bit out of this 'republican/democrat' coma most American voters are in!

Won't argue with that [although I think it's a mite oversimplistic (the quiz, not your view)].

Posted by BobbyMike on 07-15-2002 10:20 PM:

I can not truthfully answer the poll because none of the answers can be answered in a truthful fashion by a person such as myself due to the simple fact that I would abstain from voting if I only had those five choices.
I actually think Josh and Toby would make very colorful running partners (I think that they're both elegible)

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Posted by Toby on 07-15-2002 11:00 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by BobbyMike
I can not truthfully answer the poll because none of the answers can be answered in a truthful fashion by a person such as myself due to the simple fact that I would abstain from voting if I only had those five choices.
I actually think Josh and Toby would make very colorful running partners (I think that they're both elegible)

I'm missing eligibility for the next Presidential election by a slight margin (about 2 months from election time, although I'd be eligible by inauguration). You'd have to wait a while for Josh.

Posted by tantousha on 07-16-2002 01:07 AM:

Look...it's a straw poll. Don't you know what a straw poll is? or is it Canadian only?
A straw poll is a -->Simple<-- poll usually between the top two or three running parties to find out what the populous is thinking. There is no research or statistical analysis done, it's just to see which end you would lean on...there are no abstaining ballots, nor would those be counted. Quite frankly I was asking more of who would you support more....no candidates or presidents or senators just party principals.
Alex.

Posted by Toby on 07-16-2002 01:43 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by tantousha
Look...it's a straw poll. Don't you know what a straw poll is? or is it Canadian only?

No, it's not Canadian only. It's meaningless in many countries. A straw poll with a self-selected sample means less than nothing. So... what do you think you'll find out?

quote:
A straw poll is a -->Simple<-- poll usually between the top two or three running parties to find out what the populous is thinking. There is no research or statistical analysis done, it's just to see which end you would lean on...there are no abstaining ballots, nor would those be counted.

So, it's a totally asinine and meaningless effort. OK.

quote:
Quite frankly I was asking more of who would you support more....no candidates or presidents or senators just party principals.

The answer is still neither since the party _principles_ are as variable as the party _principals_ (which _would_ be the candidates, senators, president, etc.). That's why they 'rebuild the platform' every four to eight years. I identify with neither of them, hence my straw vote for ToolkiT (would that make him a "straw man"?).

Posted by tantousha on 07-16-2002 06:20 AM:

Hmmm...straw men reminds me of T.S. Eliot's "The Hollow Men". If you want to read a chilling account of where he thinks humanity is going than check it out, other wise steer clear.
Alex.

"Headpiece filled with straw"

Posted by VTL on 07-16-2002 06:32 AM:

Toby's commentary reminds me of the Simpson's Halloween episode when the Aliens impersonate Clinton and Gore during the '96 election. When Homer exposes them, they cackle that voting for anyone else is a wasted vote.

Posted by Toby on 07-16-2002 12:09 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by VTL
Toby's commentary reminds me of the Simpson's Halloween episode when the Aliens impersonate Clinton and Gore during the '96 election. When Homer exposes them, they cackle that voting for anyone else is a wasted vote.

ITYM Clinton and _Dole_. It was a classic episode.

tantousha: A 'straw man' is a type of logical fallacy.

Posted by jhappel on 07-16-2002 09:38 PM:

Toby said

quote:
A 'straw man' is a type of logical fallacy.

If that is true - how do you explain the man on the far right?

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Posted by tantousha on 07-16-2002 09:54 PM:

Read the poem and you will understand what I was getting at. In the poem, Eliot compares people of modern society to scarecrows meaning they are hollow of soul yet stuffed with materialism...it's quite a good piece...a little haunting though.
Alex.

Posted by Toby on 07-17-2002 11:23 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by tantousha
Read the poem and you will understand what I was getting at. [...]

I was explaining what I was getting at. It was a political topic, and straw man arguments are extremely overrepresented in politics.

jhappel: I didn't say there was no other type of straw man. I merely pointed out the one I was referring to.

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