VisorCentral.com - news abour the color Visor ???

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VisorCentral.com (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php)
- Visor & Deluxe (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/forumdisplay.php?forumid=1)
-- news abour the color Visor ??? (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=8565)

Posted by Garcimore on 10-10-2000 06:42 AM:

give me all you got

more seriously, i know that we will have more infos about it on 19th but i can't wait
so if you have any informations tell me !!!

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Posted by foo fighter on 10-10-2000 03:26 PM:

I wouldn't be surprised to see a few pics pop up over the next couple weeks. But here are my predictions/speculations on the Prism:

a.) Color Depth: Prism will run at 256 colors by default, and will only display 65k colors for games that are specifically written to take advantage of the color palate. But for general usage such as the Date Book or AvantGo, your going to be looking at 256 colors. Just like the IIIc

b.) Screen size: The Prism will run at 160x160 pixels, but will have a smaller screen similar to a Sony Clie. While smaller, this will pack pixels together more tightly, thereby reducing the black void in between each pixel. That could be a huge advantage over the IIIc, which will literally give you a headache to use for more than a few minutes.

c.) Size: According the ZDNET article, Prism will be thicker than the current Visor. So, who knows what that will translate into. I'm betting, or at least hoping, that Handspring will introduce an all-new design for it's color device. Something Palm didn't, but should have!

d.) Display: CNET's news article on the Prism mentioned that it would be an entry-level Palm IIIc alternative. I'm thinking that could mean it will utilize a Passive Matrix display, rather than Active Matrix.

e.) Audio Capabilities???: That is my big question; will it play MP3 audio files? Hawkins is a fairly smart designer, to say the least. By now, he has to be seeing what's happening with the Pocket PC and realizing that it is time for, at least some, Palm devices to offer digital audio capabilities. That's only a guess, but Hawkins MUST see that part of the Palm IIIc's failed sales were based on its lack of features. I don't expect he will repeat Palm's failures.

Can't wait for the 19th to roll around. I just hope Handspring doesn't offer the Prism online only!

[Edited by foo fighter on 10-10-2000 at 11:04 AM]

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Posted by Toby on 10-10-2000 03:45 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by foo fighter
e.) Audio Capabilities???: That is my big question; will it play MP3 audio files? Hawkins is a fairly smart designer, to say the least. By now, he has to be seeing what's happening with the Pocket PC and realizing that it is time for, at least some, Palm devices to offer digital audio capabilities. That's only a guess, but Hawkins MUST see that part of the Palm IIIc's failed sales were based on its lack of features. I don't expect he will repeat Palm's failures.

Umm...all visors offer digital audio capabilities with an mp3 module. Without the mp3 module and its extra memory, what use would the capability be?

Posted by foo fighter on 10-10-2000 03:51 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Toby

Umm...all visors offer digital audio capabilities with an mp3 module. [/B]

If the Visor requires an MP3 module, then it DOES NOT offer audio capabilities. I'm talking about integrated audio, similar to what is offered on Pocket PCs.

As for storing your MP3s, well, that's what storage media is for.

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Posted by DanJ on 10-10-2000 04:16 PM:

Completely off topic but....

does anyone else find that Garcimore's signature graphic makes their eyes hurt? Kinda reminnds me of the old flashing banner ads.

Posted by foo fighter on 10-10-2000 04:25 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by DanJ
does anyone else find that Garcimore's signature graphic makes their eyes hurt? Kinda reminnds me of the old flashing banner ads.

What did you say? Sorry, I couldn't read your post. My eyes are hurting too much from Garcimore's signature!

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Posted by John Nowak on 10-10-2000 04:29 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by foo fighter
If the Visor requires an MP3 module, then it DOES NOT offer audio capabilities. [/B]

For the uniformed, please note that Foo Fighter has also stated that the Palm OS does not have e-books. He's adept at inventing new definitions which, oddly, favor WinCE devices.

Posted by foo fighter on 10-10-2000 04:37 PM:

Hey, I admit I was wrong in that argument!

I agree that I did over-state the ebook issue. Palm docs are ebooks, but they don't render as well on a Palm display due to the low resolution and font style. I'm not saying it's un-usable on a Palm, it just looks better on a Pocket PC with ClearType.

As for the audio capabilities of the Visor...that's a non-issue. Do you see any headphone jack on a Visor? If I have to pay $270 for an add-on module, then I don't consider that as built-in audio.

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Posted by Gameboy70 on 10-10-2000 05:14 PM:

quote:
That's only a guess, but Hawkins MUST see that part of the Palm IIIc's failed sales were based on its lack of features.

Lack of features, schmack of features. The Palm's best selling model, the Palm V, had no extra features. And they were able to charge as much as $499 for it. All it took was a great form factor -- only one "feature," but a decisive one. I briefly thought about getting a IIIc at one time, and went to Fry's to check one out. The screen was somewhere between OK and so-so, but what turned me off was the form factor, which reminded me of the Palm VII. If people are choosing a PPC over a IIIc, it's mainly because of the superior form factor (of the iPaq, at least) and the much better color screen. The built-in audio capabilities of PPCs are just a bonus.

I'm thinking about getting a Prism, but I have serious reservations about the increased thickness. The current Visor borders on being too thick as it is. So I'll have to see the Prism in person before buying one.

Posted by John Nowak on 10-10-2000 05:31 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by foo fighter
Hey, I admit I was wrong in that argument!

And you're wrong here, too.

Posted by foo fighter on 10-10-2000 06:25 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by John Nowak
quote:
Originally posted by foo fighter
Hey, I admit I was wrong in that argument!

And you're wrong here, too.

Where, exactly, do you feel I'm wrong. My point is that the Visor requires an MP3 module to play MP3 audio. Without that module, it can't perform that function. I don't consider that to be "built-in" audio support.

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Posted by foo fighter on 10-10-2000 06:39 PM:

Gameboy:

Good points, but I think that people who buy a Palm V vs. the Palm IIIc, tend to fall into different categories. Those who purchase a V are usually looking for a simple, stylish device with an excellent form factor, that would seem to describe most Palm users. As for the IIIc crowd, they are (usually) looking for a slightly more capable device that offers a good assortment of features. The device didn't do very well because it offered no significant improvement in feature or performance, all while compromising on form factor. In other words, its price, larger form factor, and lack of new features didn't spur interest among Palm users. They continued to choose the Palm V over color.

Next year we are all going to get our wish; a Palm V with a color display! I have to admit, I would probably be willing to sacrifice MP3 audio for a small form factor and a nicely done color display. But considering this is Palm were talking about, I'm afraid to find out how much its going to cost me.

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Posted by Rob on 10-10-2000 07:02 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by foo fighter

quote:
Originally posted by Toby

Umm...all visors offer digital audio capabilities with an mp3 module.

If the Visor requires an MP3 module, then it DOES NOT offer audio capabilities. I'm talking about integrated audio, similar to what is offered on Pocket PCs.

As for storing your MP3s, well, that's what storage media is for. [/B]

I really think you are making too big a deal of this distinction, foo. Integrating an MP3 player into the
visor would not only make it bigger and more expensive (which sucks if you didn't need/want an MP3 player but did want the color, etc.) but would require a memory module anyway to hold the MP3s. I personally don't see much difference between an integrated visor/MP3 player that requires a 64MB memory module and a normal visor with the SoundsGood player, except that in the former case, you've pissed off all those users who didn't want the extra cost/size of the audio functionality.

I'm also pretty sure that PocketPCs will need to 'waste' their expansion slots with extra memory cards to hold the equivalent (64MB) of MP3s...especially if you are a power user like me who can rarely find 500KB free in my 8MB visor (and the equivalent programs on a PPC will probably fill up its memory too, since PPC programs are larger than their palm equivalents).

[Edited by Rob on 10-10-2000 at 02:10 PM]

Posted by foo fighter on 10-10-2000 07:08 PM:

Rob,

Agreed. It really depends on the needs of the user. For those who don't want their Visor's to play MP3 music, it would actually be more of an inconvenience. But since Handspring is, according to ZDNET, marketing the Prism as a gaming device, then I suspect it may have built-in audio support.

I'm waiting for leaks to begin soon. Anyone got a pic of the Prism they would like to share?

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Posted by Toby on 10-10-2000 08:00 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by foo fighter

quote:
Originally posted by Toby

Umm...all visors offer digital audio capabilities with an mp3 module.

If the Visor requires an MP3 module, then it DOES NOT offer audio capabilities.[/B]

Yes, it does. It simply requires an additional module, which reduces the cost for those that couldn't care less about that "feature"...similar to how the iPAQ requires a separately purchased sleeve for expansion.

quote:
I'm talking about integrated audio, similar to what is offered on Pocket PCs.

Which drives the base price up.

quote:
As for storing your MP3s, well, that's what storage media is for.

It seems that if you need to add storage media to store any significant portion of mp3s then they don't have much "built-in" ability to perform their "built-in" "capability", especially when the ones like the iPAQ don't even have that expanded storage option "built-in".

Posted by drgandy on 10-10-2000 08:37 PM:

distinction...

im going to have to side with foo fighter here on his point that the handspring visor does not offer built in mp3 audio capabilities. if it did, ever visor would have it 'built in'. the mp3 modules are not built in. according to what foo fighter said, he is correct. there is no built in mp3 audio capability.

however, i think it would be absurd to build mp3 audio support into any of handsprings products. it would needlessly drive the price up. thats the beauty of the springboard slot. handspring doesnt have to built in all kinds of flashy stuff not everyont wants.

foo fighter may be correct in saying there is no built in support, but i cant see handspring building that in to the devices.

what i _would_ like to see is a built in modem. if the article posted earlier was correct, it would only add like $10 to the total cost for something i think more users would want. perhaps adding it to the higher end visor platinum. i would sell my year old visor (preordered sept 15th of last year) and buy a platinum without question for a modem and new processor built in. that would just rock. ooh, and do some kind of palm V aluminum casing on the outside.

perhaps the modem idea is just as unnecessary as the mp3 player. who knows.

Posted by Toby on 10-10-2000 10:25 PM:

Re: distinction...

quote:
Originally posted by drgandy
im going to have to side with foo fighter here on his point that the handspring visor does not offer built in mp3 audio capabilities. if it did, ever visor would have it 'built in'. the mp3 modules are not built in. according to what foo fighter said, he is correct. there is no built in mp3 audio capability.

No, because he did not state such in his original comment (which is what I was responding to).

I will quote again:

quote:
e.) Audio Capabilities???: That is my big question; will it play MP3 audio files? Hawkins is a fairly smart designer, to say the least. By now, he has to be seeing what's happening with the Pocket PC and realizing that it is time for, at least some, Palm devices to offer digital audio capabilities.

There is no mention of "built-in" anything. That was a diversion brought up to make the illusion that it's a differentiating factor seem real. The price of an iPAQ with CF sleeve and 64MB of CF is no doubt roughly the same (if not more) as a Visor Deluxe and Minijam/SoundsGood combo. Next will come the PocketOffice examples...whatever.

quote:
however, i think it would be absurd to build mp3 audio support into any of handsprings products. it would needlessly drive the price up. thats the beauty of the springboard slot. handspring doesnt have to built in all kinds of flashy stuff not everyont wants.

We agree there.

quote:
foo fighter may be correct in saying there is no built in support,

He may be, but that was never an issue.

quote:
perhaps the modem idea is just as unnecessary as the mp3 player. who knows.

I think a built-in modem might be an interesting addition, but built-in wireless ethernet or bluetooth would be more compelling for me.

Posted by Belzebutt on 10-10-2000 10:40 PM:

I don't think it's worth arguing about the mp3 thing.

I think the reason the Visor is so successful is because it has the advantage of price, form factor, usability, battery life and compatibility over the PPC, and it has expandability over the Palm.

The Palm V is unbeatable for professionals who don't use their PDA as a "toy" as much as the rest of us, and for whom form factor is the best thing. And it looks damn cool too.

The PPC has many more features than the Palms, but it's more a small computer than a PDA and few people really want that. Most of us already have laptops, I don't need another portable PC. I would only consider one if the battery life, size and cost approached that of a Visor, and right now it doesn't.

The cool thing about the Visor is that it's an initially low cost, but then with springboards you can add many PPC-like features, plus features that the PPC will never have.

But most importantly low cost and small form factor is where it's at, and PPC has neither.

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Posted by foo fighter on 10-11-2000 12:10 AM:

Sorry for not making myself clear on the audio issue, Toby. I was indeed referring to "Built-in" audio, as apposed to the modular concept. No offense intended.

quote:
Next will come the PocketOffice examples...whatever.

Nope! That's a separate issue based on bundled software. As I've said many times before, Palm and Handspring could easily counter this threat by simply bundling QuickSheet and SmatDoc.

Anyway, we've strayed way off topic. Would anyone else care to guess what features will be available on the Prism?

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Posted by Visorholic on 10-11-2000 04:07 AM:

ooh ooh, me too me too, let me throw in my 2 cents about this.

Ok, I agree with foo fighter on this one. He stated that the Visors now don't have audio capabilities. The mp3 module doesn't really use the Visor for anything more than a user interface and a power source. Other than that the actual module is the only audio capable device. The visor doesn't have any real audio capability. Look the Soundsgood is supposed to have an batter pack accessory that allows you to take it out of the Visor and use it, therefore the Visor is no more than a power source and optional interface. Now I'm not bashing the visors lack of audio. I think its great to be able to have the OPTION of mp3.

I have my reservations about the MP3 player built into a Visor. I think the module is a much better way to go. It gives people the option of whether or not they want to pay for an MP3 player. But I also have issues with the color screens on Palms. I guess I just don't see the need. I mean sure its nice to have a color screen, but at what cost, and I'm not talking about price. The battery power on these things is not typical Palm endurance. And the extra thickness added to the palm also works against it. I think one day color won't even be and option, it will be perfected to the point where base models will come with color screens and battery life will not be an issue. But for now, I think its a loosing bet. Palm users want small and easy to use. Thats why palm is beating out PPC's. PPC's don't have those same attributes. They definitely have their market, but I think Palm has a winning formula with their handhelds and it just doesn't seem like color fits into that. I think someone that was seriously going to use the color, like GPS and video, is probably better off with a PPC. But for the majority of users like myself, I just want small and usable. The visor is small, not the smallest, but still very easy to carry, and with the springboard it allows me to expand it to do what I want it to do. If I want an MP3 player I'll buy one, and if I don't I get to save 250 bucks and not buy it. This "cram in whatever you can think of" mentality just doesn't work very well. KISS, Keep It Simple Stupid, thats worked for Palm and I think they need to stick to that. I'm really looking foward to Handsprings new B&W visors, I hope they can blend a palm v with a Visor, I'd pay big bucks for that.

-Visorholic

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