VisorCentral.com - Prism v. m505 ??

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VisorCentral.com (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php)
- Visor Prism (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/forumdisplay.php?forumid=19)
-- Prism v. m505 ?? (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=13058)

Posted by LTLBIGFOOT on 03-19-2001 06:15 PM:

call me crazy but why would anyone want to buy a prism insteasd of a m505.( I already have a prism) but if i didnt what would make me go with a prism the way the m505 looks on paper is awesome.

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Posted by Toby on 03-19-2001 06:22 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by narnia_77
I just read my Handheld Computing Weekly - "Contrary to misinformation reported on many web sites, you will be able to run applications directly from SD cards under Palm OS 4.0, without having to manually copy them to main memory."

Uh oh... giving Handspring a real run for the money....

The only way that this is possible is if they've managed to integrate a TRGPro AutoCF type functionality into the new OS or tack one onto it. I've not heard enough about PalmOS 4.0 to know if this has been done, though.

Posted by critic on 03-19-2001 08:02 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by LTLBIGFOOT
call me crazy but why would anyone want to buy a prism insteasd of a m505.( I already have a prism) but if i didnt what would make me go with a prism the way the m505 looks on paper is awesome.

Well, there is the fact that the Prism is availble everywhere TODAY, whereas the m505 won't be available for another 2 months.

Posted by Vertigo on 03-19-2001 08:10 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by critic

Well, there is the fact that the Prism is availble everywhere TODAY, whereas the m505 won't be available for another 2 months.

And also because some Handspring owners have amassed a few springboards, and a portable keyboard, which would have to be auctioned off, and other periperhals bought. I have done this before with my PalmV -> Visor Deluxe, and it is a pain in the butt.

Posted by SassKwatch on 03-20-2001 02:48 AM:

Re: m505 specs...

quote:
Originally posted by hamiltondj
But it also seems that it will work outside.

Isn't this a pretty significant factor? Seems like I've heard a number of Prism/IIIc owners complain about not being able to read their units outdoors.

For the most part, I don't use my pda outdoors all that much, but if some of the complaints I've heard previously are true, I would think many would be glad to see this feature.(?)

Russ

Posted by Vertigo on 03-20-2001 03:43 AM:

Re: Re: m505 specs...

quote:
Originally posted by SassKwatch

Isn't this a pretty significant factor? Seems like I've heard a number of Prism/IIIc owners complain about not being able to read their units outdoors.

For the most part, I don't use my pda outdoors all that much, but if some of the complaints I've heard previously are true, I would think many would be glad to see this feature.(?)

Russ

First off, I own a Prism. Outdoors, it's true that it is hard to see the screen, but you can still see the screen. I had my Prism outside yesterday on a bright overcast day, and the screen was slightly visible with brightness turned up 100% (I could still read text and see icons, but they were washed out). I'm sure in direct sunlight, it would be completely unusable, but as with any situation, deal with it, and find a shady spot. Regular visors are the polar opposite, and are beautiful in direct sunlight.

While that transmittive/reflective (?) display would be nice, I have too much invested in Handspring accessories. It's not that big of a leap in technology for me to consider upgrading.

Posted by themaven on 03-20-2001 03:43 AM:

Another Thing to consider...

The Palm M series all use a 25% smaller screen, and although it has the same resolution, and may appear sharper. Its small, i've seen them in the store, and it really makes you squint. I'de prefer a bit of a larger screen. I have to admit though, Palm really did impress me with their features and price point.

-Mike (future edge owner)

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Posted by Vertigo on 03-20-2001 03:50 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by themaven
Another Thing to consider...

The Palm M series all use a 25% smaller screen, and although it has the same resolution, and may appear sharper. Its small, i've seen them in the store, and it really makes you squint. I'de prefer a bit of a larger screen. I have to admit though, Palm really did impress me with their features and price point.

-Mike (future edge owner)

Ew, I didn't know that. I assume you mean the ones that are like what the m100 uses? So has the casing on the m50x shrunken along with the screen?

I was also impressed with the $449 price tag for the m505.

Posted by purplemd on 03-20-2001 04:15 AM:

I'm impressed by the development of cost-effective expansion. That's what most of us have been yelling for...be it, smartmedia, compact flash whatever.

If Palm has developed a memory expansion system which allows programs to run from it, Handspring may lose the color handheld market (Palm has screen useable outside, thinnner, "sexier", same cost AND cheaper expansion????)

This summer, why WOULD the new shopper choose Prism over M505???

Posted by bradhaak on 03-20-2001 06:07 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by themaven
Another Thing to consider...

The Palm M series all use a 25% smaller screen,

I believe that this refers to the M100 and M105, not the M50x organizers.

From visually comparing some of my different organizers it appears that my Palm Vx has exactly the same screen size as a Visor Deluxe. The Sony Clie is somewhat smaller, and the M105 is by far the smallest.

Based on my unscientific test I would guess that the M50x units will have a screen roughly the same size as a Visor Deluxe since they are the same size as a Palm Vx and from looking at the photos, the bezel around the screen is roughly the same size as the bezel on the Vx.

This means that the M50x screens should not be too small for you (unless the Visor Deluxe is already too small).

Posted by Vertigo on 03-20-2001 06:29 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by bradhaak

I believe that this refers to the M100 and M105, not the M50x organizers.

From visually comparing some of my different organizers it appears that my Palm Vx has exactly the same screen size as a Visor Deluxe. The Sony Clie is somewhat smaller, and the M105 is by far the smallest.

Based on my unscientific test I would guess that the M50x units will have a screen roughly the same size as a Visor Deluxe since they are the same size as a Palm Vx and from looking at the photos, the bezel around the screen is roughly the same size as the bezel on the Vx.

This means that the M50x screens should not be too small for you (unless the Visor Deluxe is already too small).

So your Vx has a regular screen. That doesn't mean the m505 will have the same. The m50x are new models, Palm Inc. makes changes to the line all the time. Does anybody know for sure?

Posted by Vertigo on 03-20-2001 06:44 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by purplemd
I'm impressed by the development of cost-effective expansion. That's what most of us have been yelling for...be it, smartmedia, compact flash whatever.

If Palm has developed a memory expansion system which allows programs to run from it, Handspring may lose the color handheld market (Palm has screen useable outside, thinnner, "sexier", same cost AND cheaper expansion????)

This summer, why WOULD the new shopper choose Prism over M505???

I see the springboard slot as being way more versatile than the MMC (?) card slot the m50x series will have. No matter what memory becomes standard in the future, Visors will always be able to use it through a springboard adaptor. Visors will still be the coice for road warriors, since I don't believe that Palm is going to make a Modem for the new slot on the m50x (the visor can have modem/keyboard at the same time).

No one knows what the screen is like yet, I will wait until I see it for myself before declaring it superior.

As for cheaper expansion, what do you mean? memory expansion costs the same for either platform if you are talking about compact flash, etc. I believe an auto file mover for compact flash is in the works, which should be similar to what Palm will use with their MMC (?) cards.

The only thing is comes down to now is what the consumer will want to use the expansion slot for. If just for memory, the m50x will be the way to go, but if they want to use other devices like modems/gps/wireless without adding anything (or much less) to the form factor, the visor will be the one to buy.

The m505 looks tempting, but I want to see one myself

Posted by bradhaak on 03-20-2001 06:58 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Vertigo
So your Vx has a regular screen. That doesn't mean the m505 will have the same. The m50x are new models, Palm Inc. makes changes to the line all the time. Does anybody know for sure?

Yes, People at Palm (and possibly CEBIT) know for sure. Without that level of certainty, I am pretty sure about what I said.

As I stated in my previous post, what I did was very unscientific but I think that it is correct. If I didn't, I wouldn't have posted it.

I measured the screen size on my Vx. I measured the screen size on my Visor Deluxe. I measured the size of the bezel on my Vx. I measured the proportionate size of the bezel on a picture of the M505. The M505 and the Vx are the same width (based on Palm's web site). If the they are the same width and the bezels are the same size, the screens are the same size.

Am I certain that the M505 and the Visor Deluxe have exactly the same size of screen? Absolutely not.

Am I certain that the M505 screen is significantly larger than the M100/M105 screen? Absolutely yes.

Am I fairly sure that the Palm M505 screen is roughly the same size as the Visor Deluxe screen (within a couple of millimeters)? Pretty sure.

I'll let you know for sure as soon as I have my hands on one. Too bad that won't be for about a month-and-a-half. Until then, I guess we will have to continue with these foolish suppositions. Oh well at least it's almost as much fun as politics or religion.

Posted by bradhaak on 03-20-2001 07:41 AM:

BTW, just for fun (OK, I was bored), I remeasured the screen widths for a bunch of PDAs that I have lying around. Since the screens are square, I only measured the widths. The first number is bezel to bezel. The second number is displayable area.

PalmPilot Pro - 60mm 57mm
Palm IIIX - 60mm 55mm
Palm Vx - 57mm 54mm
Palm IIIC - 60mm 57mm
Palm M100 - 50mm 46mm
Palm M105 - 50mm 46mm
Sony Clie - 54mm 51mm
HandSpring Visor Deluxe - 60mm 55mm
Handspring Visor Prism - 60mm 57mm

All of these were measured by with a ruler and eyeball. No effort was made at precision greater than one millimeter. I was gratified that my measurements showed the sme dimensions for the IIIC and Prism, since I have heard that they use the same actual model of LCD (in spite of being different color depths).

I think that my wife is right - I need to get a life.

Posted by Thunderbird291 on 03-20-2001 02:09 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by themaven
Another Thing to consider...

The Palm M series all use a 25% smaller screen, and although it has the same resolution, and may appear sharper. Its small, i've seen them in the store, and it really makes you squint. I'de prefer a bit of a larger screen. I have to admit though, Palm really did impress me with their features and price point.

-Mike (future edge owner)

Yea, In a "real world" test, I had my Platnium next to a friend's m100, and it was definately smaller. Both width and length. It was enough to make me glad I have a full screen.

Posted by Thunderbird291 on 03-20-2001 02:15 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Vertigo

I see the springboard slot as being way more versatile than the MMC (?) card slot the m50x series will have. No matter what memory becomes standard in the future, Visors will always be able to use it through a springboard adaptor. Visors will still be the coice for road warriors, since I don't believe that Palm is going to make a Modem for the new slot on the m50x (the visor can have modem/keyboard at the same time).

No one knows what the screen is like yet, I will wait until I see it for myself before declaring it superior.

As for cheaper expansion, what do you mean? memory expansion costs the same for either platform if you are talking about compact flash, etc. I believe an auto file mover for compact flash is in the works, which should be similar to what Palm will use with their MMC (?) cards.

The only thing is comes down to now is what the consumer will want to use the expansion slot for. If just for memory, the m50x will be the way to go, but if they want to use other devices like modems/gps/wireless without adding anything (or much less) to the form factor, the visor will be the one to buy.

The m505 looks tempting, but I want to see one myself

I totally agree. The backup module, game modules, etc. for palm all cost about the same as the springboard version. The memory is the only thing cheaper, and a Visor owner can get around that by getting a memplug. It can do all the things Palm brags about, like playing videos and what not, except that a Memplug would support up to 128MB, not 64 like Palm. Oh well, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Posted by Brajesh108 on 03-20-2001 06:44 PM:

The m505 has a poor backlight, almost like a flashlight was shined on it from the bottom, and the screen is almost unreadable in some indoor situations (even under flourescents!). Sure, you can read it great outside, but in most situations the screen will never be as good as a Prism. The benefits to think about are:

1. Visable outside.
2. Longer battery life.

The longer battery life is based on not having a backlight on, but if you use it indoors, in most situation you will need the backlight. Otherwise the m505 indoors is comparable to the Prism outdoors on a cloudy day.

If anyone thinks they will play a color game indoors using that poor backlight, they are wrong. Wait till the first reviews come out, you will see what I mean.

Posted by hloakes on 03-20-2001 08:02 PM:

The thing that appeals to me is the size of the expansion card. My biggest gripe with the HS modules is the trouble carrying more than one at a time. The new Palm card looks like you could carry a few in your case and not add conciderable bulk. This is not true of the Visor.

Posted by purplemd on 03-20-2001 10:30 PM:

I thought, per the website, that programs can run from the SD cards and they are read and write.

Therefore, expansion (verses just storage) is cheaper because their $50 16 meg SD is much cheaper than the $80 8 meg springboard.

Anyone know for sure?

Posted by Gretz99 on 03-21-2001 01:49 AM:

Purplemd,

Regarding your question as to whether apps can be ran directly off SD card on a m505, I started the following thread here which may or may not answer your question:

http://discussion.visorcentral.com/...?threadid=13235

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