VisorCentral.com - Delta Gamma Brain Wave module?

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VisorCentral.com (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php)
- Springboard Modules (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/forumdisplay.php?forumid=10)
-- Delta Gamma Brain Wave module? (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=15696)

Posted by ernieba1 on 06-20-2001 03:57 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by homer

It depends on whether or not you respect intellectual property rights.

No, that's not what I mean. I'm saying arguing about it doeesn't do anything. Either it looks similar or it doesn't. I think it doesn't. You think it does. This isn't going anywhere.

__________________
-Bernie

"One word sums up probably the responsibility of any vice president, and that one word is 'to be prepared'.
-Dan Quayle

Posted by homer on 06-20-2001 04:09 AM:

quote:

I will not be responding any further.

Now THAT is quality customer service.

quote:
No, that's not what I mean. I'm saying arguing about it doeesn't do anything. Either it looks similar or it doesn't. I think it doesn't. You think it does. This isn't going anywhere.

Fair enough. You are right, it doesn't matter what we think.

For the record, however, this would be a clear case of intellectual property theft and Innogear could easily make a case out of it.

What bothers me is that we WERE actually arguing with a representative of the company. I don't care what company you represent, arguing with potential customers in a public forum is just bad business.

I have absolutetly nothing against bgelert, other than his somewhat nonchalant (sp?) attitude towards comments that people have made.

If he doesn't think his site is a copy, that's fine, but obviously, there are more people here that DO think it is clearly a copy than not. That should be of some concern to his, or anyone's company.

I'm STILL wondering why this product is in a module format. Can anyone tell my what the actual module does beyond sending electricity to the wires? Couldn't this be done without the visor?

__________________
We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
-David Byrne

Posted by TimberLake on 06-20-2001 04:21 AM:

homor,

It takes awhile for a company to get used to the abusiveness of this board -- most companies dissapear from makeing comments soon after they are beat up. If he wants the first impression people have of his company to be "that looks like Innogears website" well then so be it.
But its not a good way to launch a company and new product

Posted by Yorick on 06-20-2001 04:39 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by bgelert
I was advised not to comment on these petty issues and didn't understand why ... but you guys keep trying to find offense which is just plain childish.

I will not be responding any further.
BG

I *did* ask him/her not to take it personally ...

__________________
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Posted by Matthew Nichols on 06-20-2001 05:29 AM:

Yes! I got him to fold & give in! That was my goal this whole time

__________________
Matt Nichols
[email protected]

Posted by raptor on 06-20-2001 05:41 AM:

Sheesh guys, shouldn't we at least be happy that a company even HAS someone posting on these boards? It allows for quicker feedback on issues/problems/concerns, does it not? Just look at the PI people and their Memplug product.

I mean, you all just ran this poor person off rather rudely, I must say.

Regardless of whether or not the site looks like Innogear's (looks like, yes, is identical to, no), that wasn't the issue. The issue was whether these modules work and how well they work.

I can tell you that I was rather intrigued by the concept (hey, customer service is a high stress job, hehehe), and would have liked to have someone answering the questions I had. Instead of this you all got him caught up in a rather irrelevant argument about similarities to the website of a company that has disappointed most, if not ALL of its user base (I'm referring to Innogear, who, on more than one occasion, has been referred to as VaporGear by many many posters of the VC forums).

So all of a sudden Innogear is the website design god and EMR is the horrible villain? Is there no pleasing the ravenous beasts that are the VC forum dwellers? Hell, I know someone that could probably sue Innogear for infringing upon his intellectual property, as their design is awfully similar to designs he's done for people. I mean, you know how strikingly ORIGINAL the orange ball with blue text is! And hey, look at the picture of a satisfied customer! I've NEVER seen that one before! The site designers at Innogear are complete GENIUSES to think that one up first!

And OH NO! The Portable Innovations site (www.memplug.com) has an orange ball in it with blue text! GASP! And they're using a blue arc similar to Innogear's as well! Quick, let someone know so the lawsuits can begin!

In short, lighten up, people. It isn't our position to be the 'fashion police' of website design, especially since none of us had a direct hand in creating either site. Things like this can do much more harm than good, and can easily drive a promising company out of the business altogether.

__________________
-Richard Powell

"Nice guys may finish last, but you know, the company's much better back here."

Posted by homer on 06-20-2001 06:02 AM:

Raptor:

Please re-read my post. You are oversimplifying the web design issue.

The site is a copy due to the fact that pretty much each and every element is taken from the innogear site.

Both sites have similiar looking and placed photos of happy 'customers'. That alone is not theft.

Both sites have yellow spheres as navigation icons. That alone is not theft.

Both sites use the same color pallete. That alone is not theft.

Both sites use the same page layout. That alone is not theft.

Both sites use the same secondary visual elements such as the horizonal bar. That alone is not theft.

HOWEVER, put them all together and it becomes much more than mere coincidence.

Whether or not Innogear is a bad or good company has nothing to do with the comments on this thread. The point is that a majority of the people felt that there site looked suspiciously like innogears site...and that is bad PR.

Instead of becoming offended and running away, perhaps bgelert should have addressed the issues, or at least passed them on to the proper contacts.

Saying 'we appreciate these comments, I am looking into the situation with my supervisors' would have been much more productive in cultivating a good public perception of their company than whining about the 'several thousand dollars' they paid, the fact that it is a 'petty' issue, and calling us 'childish'. That attitude is just insulting.

Also, I don't know why he ran off. No one said anything offensive or even rude. Why do people assume that debates are personal attacks on people? No one was insulting or accusing bgelert of anything.

And he didn't answer all of the questions. I'm STILL trying to find out what, in particular, makes these useful as modules as opposed to stand-alone devices.

Again, I have nothing against bgelert or nexian at all...I'm just disappointed in the way bgelert belittled the concerns and opinions about his company that were expressed here.

quote:
Things like this can do much more harm than good, and can easily drive a promising company out of the business altogether.

Exactly! Having a web site that is basically a copy of another, same-industry, more established company's web site CAN drive a promising company out of the business. As can aloof behavior in a public forum.

__________________
We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
-David Byrne

Posted by TimberLake on 06-20-2001 03:59 PM:

Raptor,

The issue is not if it is identical or not -- it is that he claims he did it that way because Handspring requires it. Either he is not so smart or he thinks we are not so smart - if he cant be strait forward with us on this issue then how can we trust the rest?

I do agree we are all very abusive -- and yes he has been very thrashed - I was sticking up for him until he pulled the old - HS made me do it.

Posted by Rob on 06-21-2001 01:15 PM:

Re: Don't Shoot!

quote:
Originally posted by bgelert
I have been at several large health shows over the past year and have personally hooked-up over 600 persons at these shows. The results were remarkable as you can see a sampling on our website under testimonials.

Can you say "placebo effect"?

...actually, I wish I were less skeptical -- then maybe I could cure
my chronic lower back problems with ginko-biloma (sp?) or grape
leaf powder (which my Mom swears by)

Posted by raptor on 06-24-2001 07:16 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by homer
Whether or not Innogear is a bad or good company has nothing to do with the comments on this thread.

And the comments of this thread have nothing to do with the TOPIC of this thread.

quote:
The point is that a majority of the people felt that there site looked suspiciously like innogears site...and that is bad PR.

No no no no no. THAT'S my problem with this thread, and THAT's what got me so riled up. This thread was/should have been about the modules and their pros/cons, NOT the similarities between two websites.

The similarities were pointed out in ANOTHER THREAD ENTIRELY. THIS thread wasn't even able to get a toehold on the topic before it degenerated into something irrelevant.

It just upset me because I had just finished reading that other thread before I hit this one. And instead of finding something informative (which I usually do in these forums), I find forumers hounding a poor company rep who had no idea what he had gotten into.

I, too, would have liked to know how these modules benefited from actually being modules. I, too, would have liked to have more details on how these things feel and work. But, guys, none of you were willing to listen to any of THAT. All you all wanted was to figure out why their site looks like Innogear's, and THAT'S what got on my nerves, to be quite honest.

__________________
-Richard Powell

"Nice guys may finish last, but you know, the company's much better back here."

Posted by Matthew Nichols on 06-24-2001 08:50 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by raptor
I, too, would have liked to know how these modules benefited from actually being modules. I, too, would have liked to have more details on how these things feel and work. But, guys, none of you were willing to listen to any of THAT. All you all wanted was to figure out why their site looks like Innogear's, and THAT'S what got on my nerves, to be quite honest.

A company's ethics and business practices are directly releated to the product they sell. Good management can make an average product great, poor management can make a great product suck. If you are really interested in only the module itself, perhaps you should e-mail the company themselves. I don't know many respectable companies who, when they can't answer question, simply shut up and close the doors - thats the kind of thing you see from those crooked doctors, etc... on magazine shows like Dateline.

__________________
Matt Nichols
[email protected]

Posted by homer on 06-24-2001 02:27 PM:

quote:
No no no no no. THAT'S my problem with this thread, and THAT's what got me so riled up. This thread was/should have been about the modules and their pros/cons, NOT the similarities between two websites.

Fair enough...but you can't be that upset when a thread takes a tangent...that's what community forums are all about.

Not to mention that it was bgelert who was focused on this topic, as opposed to actually answering the product questions being asked.

Anyways, Matt's comments hit the nail on the head.

I couldn't have said it better.

quote:
THIS thread wasn't even able to get a toehold on the topic before it degenerated into something irrelevant.

Well, like Matt said, it IS relevant. A company's business ethics is VERY relevant to the products and services they offer. The fact that the company representive basically ignored the entire issue just solidifies the fact this this is one company who's product offerings one should take with a HUGE grain of salt.

Had he legitimately addressed the concerns of those in this forum, instead of ignoring them and insulting us, perhaps then the topic would have remained on track.

__________________
We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
-David Byrne

Posted by Pewterpez on 06-26-2001 07:43 PM:

GO HOME!

GOd you guys....sooo mean! Personally...I like the idea...and about why can't I just hook up a battery?! Cuz I'm almost positive that they have to send frequencies....hence you'd have packaging that would have to have an emulator type object that would convert the DC current into a frequency that causes changes in your brain that in turn make you feel differently.

BUT THE BOTTOM LINE....Y'ALL SUCK! I'm with Raptor..companies SHOULD check out these boards...but god y'all! You can't give him credit for ****! For once...we get a decent company that provides response to customers'..er...more like in this case...CRITICS' opinions...

You're skeptical! Who cares if you are! That's the idea behaind teh 30 days money back offer! YOU PATHETIC FOOL!

And another thing...if bgelert happens to see this...could you e-mail me a screen shots of the program? That is what I'd like to see the most...unless...it doesn't have a program affiliated with it, it's just a springboard with switches...then if it's just on teh visor to use it's batteries...then it's a nice idea for portability, however I can't see the ultimate needs for that...BUT if it has a program, then great! However screenshots are a must for me to buy it.

Thanks bgelert...AND SHAME TO YOU ALL (except raptor...and the few supporters)

Pewter
[email protected]

Posted by Toby on 06-26-2001 08:03 PM:

Re: GO HOME!

Originally posted by Pewterpez:
You're skeptical! Who cares if you are! That's the idea behaind teh 30 days money back offer! YOU PATHETIC FOOL!

Well, there are two possibilities (besides it actually working as advertised). The first would be that it does nothing. If a company is disreputable enough to sell such a snake-oil product, then what good is a money back offer? "I can take a dump in a box and slap a guarantee on it..." - Tommy Callahan

The second possibility is that it actually can affect your brain waves. Considering the willingness (or rather the lack thereof) to come forward with information about the thing in this thread, this one is pretty disturbing, IMO. I think I'd rather hook up jumper cables to my ears. At least I know what that would do to me.

Posted by homer on 06-26-2001 09:14 PM:

quote:
You're skeptical! Who cares if you are! That's the idea behaind teh 30 days money back offer! YOU PATHETIC FOOL!

Shame on you for not holding a company accountable for their actions.

And this wasn't about being skeptical...it was about trying to get answers from a company representative about their product and their business practices...both of which he avoided answering.

__________________
We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
-David Byrne

Posted by Pewterpez on 06-26-2001 09:15 PM:

Re: Re: GO HOME!

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
The second possibility is that it actually can affect your brain waves. Considering the willingness (or rather the lack thereof) to come forward with information about the thing in this thread, this one is pretty disturbing, IMO. I think I'd rather hook up jumper cables to my ears. At least I know what that would do to me.

Well...then it's called lawsuit!

Posted by Toby on 06-26-2001 09:18 PM:

Re: Re: Re: GO HOME!

Originally posted by Pewterpez:
Well...then it's called lawsuit!

What good is a lawsuit going to do for you if this thing functionally lobotomizes you? You try it first and get back to us, mmmkay?

Posted by afabio on 06-26-2001 09:42 PM:

Safer Brain Experiment

For those of you who HAVE had your interest sparked about brainwaves, check out the brainmaster. It's a home built EEG machine. It doesn't modify your brainwaves, just lets you see them. Very safe if built correctly and optoisolated from PC, etc. This is an older project, But I believe it could be considered "Open Source"

<Tongue_in_cheek>
I'm also pretty sure that the voltage in the car battery will do no damage to a person if they hook jumper cables to their ears (13.8 volts will pass little or no current through the bodies relatively high resistance) However, the clips themselves will probably give several nice ear pierciengs per ear. Note that if you are wearing metal framed glasses when doing this, the voltage and current would come into play quite violently.
</Tongue_in_cheek>

Posted by srwdc1 on 06-26-2001 10:34 PM:

quote:
Note that if you are wearing metal framed glasses when doing this, the voltage and current would come into play quite violently.

What will it do if you have a mouth full of metal (bridges, crowns, dentures, etc)?

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