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-- Math coprocessor? (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=9475)


Posted by BertBert on 11-16-2000 12:15 PM:

Hi all,

Forgive my ignorance on technical matters like this, but is it true that the Visor's internal structure does not include a math coprocessor? I seem to remember someone saying that this was the case. If so, has anybody ever thought about making a springboard module that is just a math coprocessor, that perhaps could be used to accelerate number-heavy programs like Quicksheet? (Can such a module even be made?)

I mention this because I use Quicksheet to keep a gradebook for my classes, and this late in the semester I have a lot of stuff in each workbook and Quicksheet is almost painfully slow under these conditions. (Quicksheet is a wonderful program, don't get me wrong.) I'd shell out $35-50 for a module like the one I described above if it could speed stuff like this up. (Maybe even stick 2 MB of memory on it, ala the Innogear vibrating alarm module?)

Talk amongst yourselves.

__________________
BertBert
Mark 12:28-31


Posted by MarkEagle on 11-16-2000 01:05 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by BertBert
...and Quicksheet is almost painfully slow under these conditions.


The reason Quicksheet is slow probably has more to do with the auto-recalc than anything else. You can turn off auto-recalc in the Worksheet properties... it makes a big difference. Then, you just need to remember to recalc manually!

__________________


Posted by BertBert on 11-16-2000 01:11 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by MarkEagle
quote:
Originally posted by BertBert
...and Quicksheet is almost painfully slow under these conditions.


The reason Quicksheet is slow probably has more to do with the auto-recalc than anything else. You can turn off auto-recalc in the Worksheet properties... it makes a big difference. Then, you just need to remember to recalc manually!



I tried this, and then I went into one of my gradebooks and entered in a two-digit number into one of the cells -- and it took about 10 seconds just for the Visor to enter the number and move to the next cell! So I am not sure if the auto-recalc is really the source of the slowness. Thanks for the advice though.

__________________
BertBert
Mark 12:28-31


Posted by MPM on 11-16-2000 08:27 PM:

Post No FPU

quote:
Originally posted by BertBert
Hi all,

Forgive my ignorance on technical matters like this, but is it true that the Visor's internal structure does not include a math coprocessor? I seem to remember someone saying that this was the case. If so, has anybody ever thought about making a springboard module that is just a math coprocessor, that perhaps could be used to accelerate number-heavy programs like Quicksheet? (Can such a module even be made?)
...



There is no math coprocessor in the Visor. The Visor uses the Motorola Dragonball EZ processor. The Dragonball is based upon the 680X0 family of processors. The 68020 can hook up to an external FPU, and the 68030/40/60 all have the FPU in them. BUT the Dragonball does not have an internal FPU nor can it hook up to an external one.

I suppose that one could make a Springboard module that had an FPU in it and that had software with it that hooked it into the existing floating point math library, but I don't think it would increase math performance very much. The slowdown comes from the software having to transfer the numbers to the FPU in the Sprinboard module and then transfer the result back out. A coprocessor based FPU does not have this software transfer in/out penalty.


Posted by parb33 on 11-17-2000 04:36 AM:

Have you considered overclocking QuickSheet?

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Life's just a blast, just it's moving really fast, and you'd <BR>better stay on top or life'll kick you in the ass -Limp Bizkit


Posted by california boyhead on 11-17-2000 08:35 AM:

Re: No FPU

quote:
Originally posted by MPM
The 68020 can hook up to an external FPU, and the 68030/40/60 all have the FPU in them.
[/B]


Actually...
the 68030's FPU was external and not always included... It used the 68882 FPU, derived from the 68020's FPU, the 68881. The 68040 had an FPU in its full form, but Motorola did release some as 68LC040's with out FPU functionality built-in...


Posted by parb33 on 11-17-2000 03:06 PM:

Re: Re: No FPU

quote:
Originally posted by california boyhead
Actually...
the 68030's FPU was external and not always included... It used the 68882 FPU, derived from the 68020's FPU, the 68881. The 68040 had an FPU in its full form, but Motorola did release some as 68LC040's with out FPU functionality built-in...


Were you the one who once called the rest of the discussion board nerds?

__________________
Life's just a blast, just it's moving really fast, and you'd <BR>better stay on top or life'll kick you in the ass -Limp Bizkit


Posted by MPM on 11-17-2000 09:06 PM:

Post Re: Re: No FPU

quote:
Actually...
the 68030's FPU was external and not always included... It used the 68882 FPU, derived from the 68020's FPU, the 68881. The 68040 had an FPU in its full form, but Motorola did release some as 68LC040's with out FPU functionality built-in...



You are correct. I gooffed on the 68030 having an FPU. It has the 68851 Paged Memory Management Unit integrated, not the 68882 FPU. I had forgotten about the FPU-less 68LC040s.

I should have looked in my Motorola databooks (sitting 2 feet behind me) before I hit "submit".

Nerds unite!


Posted by mjoeyb on 11-18-2000 03:52 AM:

There are lots of programs that are made for tracking grades. I know of two of them that you can download at least a trial version of the software. I have seen Due Yesterday and Four.Zero, but I am sure that there are lots more out there. I have not used them too much, but I am sure that the refresh rate is much faster than quicksheet. Of course, if you really like quicksheet...

__________________
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into get engines.


Posted by california boyhead on 11-20-2000 10:37 AM:

Re: Re: Re: No FPU

quote:
Originally posted by parb33
Were you the one who once called the rest of the discussion board nerds? [/B]


youre right my bad, i meant geeks not nerds...
btw did u see the name of Limp Biscuit's new album? I cant believe that these guys, the marketing folks, and the management all agreed that this was the best they could do...


Posted by parb33 on 11-20-2000 10:58 PM:

I agree, the name is a pretty poor effort. Kinda nauseating if you ask me. BTW, what is the difference between geeks and nerds?

__________________
Life's just a blast, just it's moving really fast, and you'd <BR>better stay on top or life'll kick you in the ass -Limp Bizkit


Posted by yucca on 11-21-2000 03:42 AM:

Back to the topic at hand . . .

. . . and not that I disapprove of meandering conversations . . . but back to BurtBurt's original question.

There is no reason why someone like TI couldn't release a module with an optimized processor that actually runs the application on the module (which would have to have its own memory), and only use the Visor as a display device. Of course, if you are going to go to all this trouble, you would want more than a mere speadsheet. Maybe something like a Mathmatica-lite or Mathcad SBM. Actually, a Mathcad SBM might be feasible. Given the low volume sales for such a device, I'm afraid to even imagine what the price might be.


Posted by BertBert on 11-21-2000 01:04 PM:

Re: Back to the topic at hand . . .

quote:
Originally posted by yucca
Of course, if you are going to go to all this trouble, you would want more than a mere speadsheet. Maybe something like a Mathmatica-lite or Mathcad SBM. Actually, a Mathcad SBM might be feasible. Given the low volume sales for such a device, I'm afraid to even imagine what the price might be. [/B]


Well, I know that there is a WinCE version of Maple 6 out there -- I saw it at a Maple workshop, and when I asked the Maplesoft reps about a PalmOS version, they were pretty sure there was not one but thought it would be a good idea.

As for volume sales, I agree with you -- although Handspring could really change this if they wanted to. A few weeks ago I posted elsewhere that the educational market niche seems to have gone virtually untapped by Handspring and everybody else. Handspring would really do well to target colleges and universities to market both hardware and software. This is what TI did with graphing calculators, and now they practically have the educational market all to themselves. If Handspring marketed the Visor along with modules and software with college students and faculty in mind, it could create whatever volume it needed.

But this is now a meandering conversation, isn't it?

__________________
BertBert
Mark 12:28-31


Posted by heed on 11-21-2000 02:51 PM:

Talking

To answer your question (difference btwn nerds and geeks), you can't spell Geek without EE ;-) I heard that a lot, since it was one of my majors at Auburn!


Posted by chrisfoster on 11-25-2000 03:27 PM:

Much of the slowdown lies not in the math but in the time it takes to display the spreadsheet, as heavy drawing code will be a kick in the pants for the Visor


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