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-- is it time to leave... (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=18617)

is it time to leave...

i have been waiting for the new visors to come out. i was dissipointed with the results. i own a vdx and i want to upgrade, but having only 1 color visor as an optional im thinking of a change. to a different company. the sony clie are very appealing.
handspring needs to release new COLOR products or else i think most of thier customers will leave to something else

so i've heard

Guys I think the fact is that these companies are not simply catering to 'us'. 'Us' being the type of PDA user that would frequent a forum dedicated to the topic of their particular choice of models (like VC). HS, Palm, and MS are shooting for one thing and one thing only at this point.... Market Share.

I like to believe that millions of dollars have been spent on research telling HS that people on the entry level, for the most part, don't get colour, don't get hi-res etc etc. Most of these people I bet don't even know these features exist! I believe that this is the reason for the seemingly repeated models. Not because the R&D guy sleeps in alot or leaves for golf daily at 10am. Generally when I ask people I see at work/school why they bought their particular device they say 'It was a gift' or 'What diff does it make.'.

Ark.

I agree with Arker. Until the general public gets wise to these things and begins to demand color, etc. 'en masse', I think the Big Boys will continue to focus on the broad market- that is, simple, low-priced, 'cool' (in the general public's mind).

I DO think that the manufacturers are doing a pretty rotten job trying to train the public- there are almost NO commercials on mainstream TV or other mass media about these devices or what they do. Heck- EVERYONE knows what a GameBoy is and does- but almost no one knows about PDAs/handhelds/Palms/ palmPilots or whatever they are called! (The general knowledge level is SO LOW that there is not even a common name for these things.)

When the users base gets big enough, and they start demanding more power, color, etc., you can bet that the features will start to appear like mushrooms, and the prices will fight for the lowest spot.

The Sony is almost a freak mutation- a great machine at a decent price made by a huge company. However- even Sony is being pretty low-key in the way they are pushing this device for some reason. If they flexed their muscle a bit, they could proably own this marketshare.

I agree not many people realize the power and potential of PDAs. Advertising is important. More events like VisorAdventure would be good things, except they should stop not at computer stores but at the Wal-Marts or K-Marts, etc. where people who don't necessarily have an interest or think there is a use for these would be and be educated. Maybe stores can set up PDA rental programs where they rent out a PDA for the period of a month to a person and if they like it they can buy the PDA but if they don't then they didn't loose too much $$$ on the thing.

A new Color device is a necessity for HS to remain competitive

I'm a long time PalmOS junkie. A buddy of mine got me hooked on handheld computing 4 years ago when he showed me his Palm Pro. I later received a Palm III for my birthday. I started writing software for it and loved it. Then wound up buying an SPT1500, Palm VII, then a VIIx and now using a VisorPrism/VisorPhone.

The Prism and VisorPhone is great, but for a power user/developer 8MB is simply not enough room for on-board storage. Sure, I can clean up a few games here and there, possibly a utility or two. But the core applications I use plus the pictures of my family that I like to keep with me (only about 8, no videos 8MB is too crowded.

Since I use the VisorPhone as my primary communication device, MemPlug and other forms of flash storage are great "options" but keep in mind, the phone stays in the device most all the time. Given this fact, more on-board memory is a necessity.

Aside from memory, being able to see the display in direct sunlight is also a necessity. The first time I realized this was an impossiblity was when trying to take a picture using an Eyemodule at a Zoo of my little girl. I was terribly bothered by the fact that the Prism display was completly unusable in direct sunlight.

In my opinion, a new color device is going to be a necessity for Handspring. I hope it doesn't take much longer, I was almost positive the rumored (at the time) "VisorPro" would turn out to be such a device. Like serveral others, I was disappointed. Almost to the point, myself, to swap. Not to MS, but to the Sony Clie.

I do hope someone from HS reads VisorCentral and takes our comments to heart. If they don't more and more "Power Users" will be looking for alternatives. I prefer to stay with HS, but my patience is beginning to wear thin.

The Clie would be a good option if they hired 2 guys to do some support for them.

How hard is it to make your products work with Windows XP or to release an update for something that already EXISTS (ie 710 OS 4.0 update).

Also is it too difficult to make a product that doesn't get dust on the inside of the screen. =(

I'd buy the 320 (since I hate the Neo), but if I want a case or even a CRADLE I'm out a paycheck (I have very small paychecks ). Even Sony's MP3 player for the 320 it costs ~$50-$60 more for 64mb than for the Visor.

Wire-more or Less

I don't care about color half as much as an integrated wireless functionality. Even if its 801b and I need to get a wireless gateway. And I don't want to pay a bloody fortune for the functionality. Show me a $250 Visor with integrated 801b capability and I will show you a picture of an aging rock star tossing his VDX into the dumpster.

Fellow enthusiasts, I feel your pain. But think about this.

Most people who buy Honda Civics fill them with unleaded, strap on their seatbelt, and zip around at 40 mph on surface streets; 60-75 on the highway. Merging, braking, and signaling their way to 100k or 200k miles, with a Turtle Wax treatment every six months. *yawn*

There is a small group of "enthusiasts" that buy that same Honda Civic, get a $3000 customization package, modify the engine for nitrus oxide, and do other unspeakable things to it. At the end of this process they have a garishly adorned, super flashy pocket-rocket that can break the sound barrier on asphalt.

Which of these people does Honda market to?

__________________
That IS a Palm III form-factor in my pocket, AND I'm happy to see you.

Souped Up Honda

Slotmachine,

I see your points. I don't really think that I'm asking too much though for HS to deliver. Keep in mind, it is their job to provide those devices that consumers are willing to purchase. I believe there is huge market for high-end Color, 16MB devices. Sony's are selling pretty good...

Handspring said that when they could do color right, they would (in reference to an m505 comparison/size). But honestly, a decent screen is indeed possible, Sony's got it and it's a beauty. 16MB is obviously the future now that the recent Motroloa chips can address this much RAM (was only possible with 33Mhz Dragonball chips). Why waste their time releasing 8MB devices when the CPU is quite capable of addressing 16MB and RAM is dirt cheap.

RAM and a better screen are obviously the very basics of any PDA. It's the main two of the 5 components of most every computer (Input-Graffiti, Output-Display, Memory-RAM, Storage-HD/HotSync and Brain-CPU). Asking for better quality in those two areas help HS to remain competitive in a market saturated with more and more options.

I know the RAM can be upgraded by shipping it off, gutting the existing chips and installing new ones. But the display is still a problem with the VisorPrism. Not much can be done here, something that really needs to be improved upon. I do like getting out of the house from time to time and wouldn't mind being able to view the screen outdoors

The Prism and VisorPhone are a perfect combo based on HS's current offering. I will never go back to a non-wireless PDA. Nor one without color. Once you've had both, they become a necessity for future upgrade decisions. At this time, there is nothing to upgrade two basing that decision on : Color PDA (Viewable outdoors), VisorPhone(or similar), 16MB RAM.

The Xircom 802.11b module is a great device as well (I own one of these too), but it's only useful if you are at home or at work (which also has a WAP). It'll be sometime before 802.11b is integrated. You'll likely see Bluetooth before 802.11b. Based on my experience, 802.11b appears more likely to be the eventual standard. But, that's up to all consumers to determine...

quote:

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Originally posted by slotmachine
There is a small group of "enthusiasts" that buy that same Honda Civic, get a $3000 customization package, modify the engine for nitrus oxide, and do other unspeakable things to it. At the end of this process they have a garishly adorned, super flashy pocket-rocket that can break the sound barrier on asphalt.

Which of these people does Honda market to?

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The question was: Is it time to leave?

The answer is simply NO. Why? Well, we haven't seen the new color device that HandSpring is obviously going to release. If HS doesn't have a color device in their next PDA, I guess it will be the time to leave.

Now, why are we making such a big deal out of the new PDA's? Do you guys really think those are going to be the last PDA's HS will be releasing? There is more to come, they just want to have a bigger variety of b/w PDA's for low budget people high school students and maybe some college students. Come on people not everybody has the same income.

Another important fact is that HS knows we are very picky and that people make a big deal out of small things. Therefore, it is better for all of us that HS implements this new color PDA much better than it did with the Prism. Also, let's remember that testing is very important. In fact, for some of you that might not know, according to Brooks in his book "the Mythical Man-Month" testing takes half of the time spent in a project. Let's hope that they are testing this product right now and that it is in its final states, otherwise it might become obsolete by the time it hits the streets.

Al

__________________
It all started way back in February 2000 with a Blue VDX.

Re: Souped Up Honda

quote:

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Originally posted by jonecool
The Xircom 802.11b module is a great device as well (I own one of these too), but it's only useful if you are at home or at work (which also has a WAP). It'll be sometime before 802.11b is integrated. You'll likely see Bluetooth before 802.11b. Based on my experience, 802.11b appears more likely to be the eventual standard. But, that's up to all consumers to determine...

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__________________
That IS a Palm III form-factor in my pocket, AND I'm happy to see you.

I am not ready to leave, mostly due to my investment in springboard modules. Just in case HS actually reads their web page feedback I sent the following...

> COMMENTS: I am begging you on my knees to please produce a Prism upgrade. I have used one for a year and a half now. The screen is full of scratches and I want to buy an upgrade, not a simple replacement. After using color, I can't see going back to monochrome. With money invested in 9 modules including Presenter-to-Go, ThinmodemPlus, and Eyemodule2, I don't want to switch to the 505. I need something in a Visor Deluxe form factor with more memory and a screen I can read in daylight. I don't need wireless access or
cell phone capability. I can't use it at work because of security reasons.
> {getting down on my knees...}
> PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE!
>

But as others have said, if they don't produce something soon, my patience will run out. If the only other available color device forces wireless on me, I won't be able to buy it for work.

Hmmm

quote:

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Originally posted by HindeR
I am not ready to leave, mostly due to my investment in springboard modules. Just in case HS actually reads their web page feedback I sent the following...

> COMMENTS: I am begging you on my knees to please produce a Prism upgrade. I have used one for a year and a half now. The screen is full of scratches and I want to buy an upgrade, not a simple replacement. After using color, I can't see going back to monochrome. With money invested in 9 modules including Presenter-to-Go, ThinmodemPlus, and Eyemodule2, I don't want to switch to the 505. I need something in a Visor Deluxe form factor with more memory and a screen I can read in daylight. I don't need wireless access or
cell phone capability. I can't use it at work because of security reasons.
> {getting down on my knees...}
> PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE!
>

But as others have said, if they don't produce something soon, my patience will run out. If the only other available color device forces wireless on me, I won't be able to buy it for work.

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Re: Hmmm

quote:

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Originally posted by yardie
...complainers such as Foo Fighter is going to notice.

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__________________
My blog: Pocketfactory

Re: Re: Hmmm

quote:

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Originally posted by foo fighter
[...]Innovation seems to be lacking from Handspring, and its time for Hawkins to prove he can match or outwit the competition.

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__________________
Don't like somebody? Click "Profile" on a post and then click "Ignore "so and so's" posts". Voila!

I see several responses to this post stating that HS is marketing to the masses, not to enthusiasts, and that they know what the market wants. Well, Palm and HS both saw their worldwide total sales fall approximately 50% in the second quarter while HP's sales rose approx. 50% and Compaq did even better. HS was surpassed by Compaq as the 2nd largest PDA maker in the world. Maybe HS needs to rethink how much they know what the market wants.

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Talldog

I agree with Talldog. When I said that HS is doing exactly what their research says the 'entry level' masses want, I was indicating my theory on their funamental market strategy. I did not mean to imply that I thought it was the correct one.

Ark.

Re: Hmmm

quote:

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Originally posted by yardie



Would you rather they release a mediocre color unit or would rather wait for something snazzy? If they release anything substandard to the Clie, power users and complainers such as Foo Fighter is going to notice.

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320 x 320. Not just a fad.

quote:

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Originally posted by slotmachine
Fellow enthusiasts, I feel your pain. But think about this.

Most people who buy Honda Civics fill them with unleaded, strap on their seatbelt, and zip around at 40 mph on surface streets; 60-75 on the highway. Merging, braking, and signaling their way to 100k or 200k miles, with a Turtle Wax treatment every six months. *yawn*

There is a small group of "enthusiasts" that buy that same Honda Civic, get a $3000 customization package, modify the engine for nitrus oxide, and do other unspeakable things to it. At the end of this process they have a garishly adorned, super flashy pocket-rocket that can break the sound barrier on asphalt.

Which of these people does Honda market to?

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__________________
Pocket PCs, Palm... next victim, MS Windows!