VisorCentral.com - 2002: a Year of Transition

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-- 2002: a Year of Transition (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=30756)

Posted by Toby on 12-31-2002 12:27 AM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Oh my

quote:
Originally posted by fixitgal
There's a great microbrewery close by that makes a really nice golden Wheat. That would probably be the only beer I'd consider drinking in cold weather.

Hmm...if there was ever a beer made for summer weather, it's wheat beer.

Winter is weather for heavy beers.

Posted by AbortRetryFail? on 12-31-2002 01:26 AM:

REAL Irish coffee

quote:
Otherwise I'd have an Irish coffee (but only if they use good whiskey and real whipped cream.)

1. The Buena Vista

2. Tosca's

Both in S.F.

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Posted by fixitgal on 12-31-2002 03:46 AM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Oh my

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
Winter is weather for heavy beers.

Sorry cher, I'm not convinced. I'm a "lightweight" beer drinker. If I can't see through it, I won't drink it. Ah well, at least we still disagree on something...

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Posted by fixitgal on 12-31-2002 03:47 AM:

Re: REAL Irish coffee

quote:
Originally posted by AbortRetryFail?
1. The Buena Vista
2. Tosca's
Both in S.F.

Thanks for the tip! We have a "girls night out" coming up, so we'll give Tosca's a try.

__________________
"When I am Empress...Heads will roll!"
Queen of Parts

Posted by NateS on 12-31-2002 04:08 AM:

Re: Oh my

quote:
Originally posted by K. Cannon
<snip>
Frankly, I am more annoyed by the assumption that no women visit this site and the blatant over-generalization of the emotional differences between men and women, as referenced above. But even that doesn't really annoy me all that much--let's live and let live around here, eh?
Kelley

K,

Just to clarify my own thoughts and assumptions, I did not write with the assumption that this was an all-male audience. I assumed that both men and women populate this group, and it did not occur to me that it would offend members of either gender. It has just been my own personal and professional empirical observation over the years. In addition, I did not mean to imply that it was a genetic-based distinction, but rather one taught through the typical difference in how men and women are acclimated to their social environment by parents, teachers and peers. The fact that, given the opportunity, individual men can also acquire these skills in giving comfort and support is demonstrated by the responses reflected in this thread.

When I hear parents defiantly scream to their tearful sons on the playing field, and now also to similarly circumstanced daughters: "Shake it off! Shake it off!" I understand the importance of teaching resilience, but I sometimes wonder just how far into the psyche such attitudes and lessons penetrate. Perhaps deeper than intended by well-meaning parents?

Regards,

NateS

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Treo 600 - what a "Marvel"ous device!

Posted by K. Cannon on 12-31-2002 04:30 PM:

Thanks to all for your thoughtful replies. I think my personal feeling of defensiveness for the author of the original article might have made my language a bit strong.

Also, I will admit that I was recalling other posts (mind you, none of which were authored by anyone who has thus far participated in this thread) on this typically female/male/other-friendly forum that were a bit more sexist in intention.

Also, please understand that I am not typically a feminist--I like for fellows to hold the door for me, I occasionally agree with Robert D. Raiford, and I certainly do not wish to be a kicker on a football team nor an infantryman. At the same time, I am a professional (no, not that kind)and make more money than my husband.

Responding to the question regarding my generalizations about the sexes, I can only respond that:
I do not like to shop (except for accessories for my PDA)
I cried during Steel Magnolias and Rudy
I know how many feet you have to get down when catching a football in college and pro .
I like dogs more than cats.
I do not vote for the "cutest" candidate.

In other words, I suppose I would tend to judge each person individually, if at all possible.

Posted by John Nowak on 12-31-2002 08:09 PM:

Re: Re: Oh my

quote:
Originally posted by NateS

When I hear parents defiantly scream to their tearful sons on the playing field, and now also to similarly circumstanced daughters: "Shake it off! Shake it off!" I understand the importance of teaching resilience, but I sometimes wonder just how far into the psyche such attitudes and lessons penetrate. Perhaps deeper than intended by well-meaning parents?

Dunno. If you're not resilient enough, you're a wimp; if you're too resilient, you run the risk of lacking empathy. Both are bad, like most virtues or vices.

Posted by NateS on 12-31-2002 10:48 PM:

Best wishes for the New Year!

The next best thing after discovering the Treo itself was discovering TreoCentral!

My best wishes for the New Year Year to all TreoCentralites!

I enjoy your expertise, your advice, your camaraderie and your friendship!

Regards,

NateS

__________________
Treo 600 - what a "Marvel"ous device!

Posted by MarkEagle on 01-01-2003 03:06 AM:

Re: Best wishes for the New Year!

quote:
Originally posted by NateS
My best wishes for the New Year Year to all TreoCentralites!

Hey... don't forget us VisorCentralites! We may be a dying breed, but we've got feelings, too...

(and everybody here was up in arms about gender-bias...)

__________________

God bless America, my home sweet home...

Posted by NateS on 01-01-2003 04:00 AM:

Re: Re: Best wishes for the New Year!

quote:
Originally posted by MarkEagle
Hey... don't forget us VisorCentralites! We may be a dying breed, but we've got feelings, too...

(and everybody here was up in arms about gender-bias...)

Wow! Sorry.

A Happy and healthy New Year to all VisorCentralites too!

Regards,

NateS

__________________
Treo 600 - what a "Marvel"ous device!

Posted by yardie on 01-01-2003 05:19 PM:

Lets face it. In Western Civilization marriage is becoming a dead institution. I personally do not believe in divorce. If I do end up getting married, I expect the "death do us part" to stick.

From what I can see, women are the net beneciary of a divorce. This is especially so when kids are concerned. The women usually maintain custody of the kids. They also usually get a substantial amount of the husband's wealth.

quote:
Originally posted by Toby

If you live your life by this logic, I know of a nice cave you could move into. Life is meant to be lived, not avoided.

__________________
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Posted by KRamsauer on 01-01-2003 05:21 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yardie
Lets face it. In Western Civilization marriage is becoming a dead institution. I personally do not believe in divorce. If I do end up getting married, I expect the "death do us part" to stick.

From what I can see, women are the net beneciary of a divorce. This is especially so when kids are concerned. The women usually maintain custody of the kids. They also usually get a substantial amount of the husband's wealth.

I think you're not shedding light on the whole story. First, it is often agreed the children should stay with the mother. I was an odd example in that I stayed with my father (again, by agreement). Second, women get a substantial amount of the couple's wealth. I don't see how you can in one break say marraige is a permanent union and in the next insist the property of the couple belongs to one person or the other.

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Posted by Toby on 01-01-2003 05:38 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yardie
Lets face it. In Western Civilization marriage is becoming a dead institution.

Do you have actual statistics to back that up, or is it just conjecture based on a couple news articles and anecdotal evidence?

quote:
I personally do not believe in divorce. If I do end up getting married, I expect the "death do us part" to stick.

OK. Ditto (well except that I am married already).

quote:
From what I can see, women are the net beneciary of a divorce. This is especially so when kids are concerned. The women usually maintain custody of the kids. They also usually get a substantial amount of the husband's wealth.

So, you're upset because those women get financial compensation for having to take the lion's share of the day-to-day parental responsibilities?

Posted by Alli on 01-01-2003 07:35 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yardie
Lets face it. In Western Civilization marriage is becoming a dead institution. I personally do not believe in divorce. If I do end up getting married, I expect the "death do us part" to stick.

From what I can see, women are the net beneciary of a divorce. This is especially so when kids are concerned. The women usually maintain custody of the kids. They also usually get a substantial amount of the husband's wealth.

Let me broaden your horizons...when I divorced ten years ago, my husband got custody of the kids, and has been collecting child support lo these many years, despite the fact that he earns 3 times what I make. To make another grand generalization: Life is unfair.

Posted by yardie on 01-02-2003 02:13 AM:

I think about 40 - 50% of marriages in America end up in divorce. more and more people are opting for common law relationships. I did a quick search on Google and these sites shed some light on the issue: http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm and http://www.divorcemag.com/statistics/statsUS.shtml

I think the wife should get something is the marriage lasted for a while -- say 5 years or more. They should not get much money if there is a divorce before then. This will prevent gold diggers (both men and women) from taking advantage of the "system".

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
Do you have actual statistics to back that up, or is it just conjecture based on a couple news articles and anecdotal evidence?[B]OK. Ditto (well except that I am married already).[B]So, you're upset because those women get financial compensation for having to take the lion's share of the day-to-day parental responsibilities?

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Posted by yardie on 01-02-2003 02:14 AM:

I am sorry to learn about your predicament. Idid say "usually" not "always".

quote:
Originally posted by Alli

Let me broaden your horizons...when I divorced ten years ago, my husband got custody of the kids, and has been collecting child support lo these many years, despite the fact that he earns 3 times what I make. To make another grand generalization: Life is unfair.

__________________
My life is in my Treo... Where is yours?

Posted by KRamsauer on 01-02-2003 04:42 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by yardie
I think the wife should get something is the marriage lasted for a while -- say 5 years or more. They should not get much money if there is a divorce before then. This will prevent gold diggers (both men and women) from taking advantage of the "system".

Wouldn't a simple solution be to split half the wealth accumulated over the timespan? So if a couple were worth $200,000 before marrying, and $500,000 afterward, each would get their "before" amount plus $150,000. That seems like the most logical way and is consistent with the notion that when women forgo work while their husband makes money, they are enabling him to make that money.

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Posted by Toby on 01-02-2003 11:54 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by yardie
I think about 40 - 50% of marriages in America end up in divorce.

Yes, that is a common belief. There are no statistics that I've seen which support it.

quote:
more and more people are opting for common law relationships.

A common-law marriage has the same legal weight as a certificate in many places (along with the potential for alimony et al).

quote:
I did a quick search on Google and these sites shed some light on the issue: http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm

The only light this sheds is that even your 40% estimate is high.

quote:
and http://www.divorcemag.com/statistics/statsUS.shtml

That one looks like a bunch of numbers thrown together by someone trying to make it look like they reach a large audience.

quote:
I think the wife should get something is the marriage lasted for a while -- say 5 years or more. They should not get much money if there is a divorce before then. This will prevent gold diggers (both men and women) from taking advantage of the "system".

How often do you think this really occurs?

Posted by K. Cannon on 01-02-2003 02:54 PM:

Oh My II

And we had been doing so well for the last few posts...

quote:
Originally posted by yardie
the husband's wealth.

Oh good grief...please explain how it is "the husband's wealth" if the wife is working.

Posted by Toby on 01-02-2003 03:41 PM:

Re: Oh My II

quote:
Originally posted by K. Cannon
And we had been doing so well for the last few posts...

Oh good grief...please explain how it is "the husband's wealth" if the wife is working.

Actually, I'm rather curious as to how it's 'the husband's wealth' even when the wife _isn't_ working if it was acquired during the marriage. It would be extremely disingenuous for one to say that marriage doesn't increase one's social standing within many work places hence making career advancement more likely.

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