VisorCentral.com (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php)
- Springboard Modules (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/forumdisplay.php?forumid=10)
-- MultiMeter Module Study (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=5343)

Hello all! I need some help!!!

In order to get funding for the development & manufacturing of a MultiMeter Module for the Handspring Visor, I need to do a market study. This should convice the man with the money that these things will sell.

If all of you could tell me if you would buy one, what profession you are in, and what you might use it for, I would REALLY appreciate it. I'll hang on to the final list and give all of you a discount or something on our product WHEN it makes it to market!

[This message has been edited by LuckyChuck (edited 04-12-2000).]

Sounds like something I might be interested in as I'm always troubleshooting something in the car or one of these "magic" boxes (pointing to the PC).

I've never used one of them before, but if you could replicate a tester like those that interface to the PC, you might just have something.

------------------
MarkEagle - Ice is nice!

Depending on the cost, I'm might be interested in one. I'm a control systems engineer and I occasionally have need of an multimeter to test milliamps, voltage, and continuity. Also, if there was a multimeter, I might be able to convince our design department to invest in a few visors plus meter. But like I said at the beginning, it would definately have to depend on cost.

We're thinking that the price would run around $150, no more expensive that a decent digital multimeter costs. Thanks!

I'm sure my father would love to have one of those. He used to own an auto stereo shop and used them for installations all the time.

------------------
James Hromadka
VisorCentral.com
Personal Website: http://www.Hromadka.com

Some food for though.
I would rethink your proposed cost and who you want to market to. There are several digital multimeter available for less than $50. If you are marketing towards the hobbiest, than that price in reasonable. If you are marketing towards the professional electronics technication, then you might be able to ask for more, and a lot depends on the functions available on the meter. I also would hate to cross my wires and zap my $250 Visor with a voltage surge, which i have done to my $20 digital multimeter. Anyway, good luck with your new venture. I admire your ingenuity.

I would certainly be interested. What got me looking into the Visor is a CNN article mentioning a possible oscilloscope module. Now if a 20 msps oscilloscope module were available for a reasonable price I might consider getting a Visor to put it in.

There are two companies developing data acquisition modules for the Springboard slot. If you want to use them as multimeters or scopes, you probably want to contact the vendors and make sure they're not designing something that's going to miss your target application (for example, a 'scope probably needs a higher scan rate than a heart monitor):

Datastick Systems, http://www.datastick.com

ImagiWorks, http://www.imagiworks.com/prod_cons/index.html

I'd consider a Visor DVM but not at anywhere near $150. I'm a control system engineer and I carry my Visor and RadioShack-clam shell DVM (2"x1"x3") in my computer case. I think the RS cost $20 on sale. I have a Beckman and a Fluke for serious work.

I'm looking to put together a "Control System Engineer" packaged Visor for projects. All the necessary tools, forms, lists, documents for coperative field assignments and tight documentation. An integrated DVM or loop calibrator might have some benefits.

My Dad is an engineer at Fluke..
I have a Fluke 87 Multimeter that I use every once and a while. One thing I was wondering about the springboard multimeter, how big will it be, and will there be any risk at all in damaging the Visor? also, the price of $150 seems very high..

I would be very intrested in this, even though i am only in 9th grade. I am getting into pc/vcr/psx/etc repair so i would be very intrested

Hi,
I'm the guy who suggested this module on the wish-list. Yes, I'm still interested in a Multi-meter module for the Visor.

Byron

A few (ok...maybe MORE than a few) years ago, I would have bought one for my digital design courses in college. Since Handspring seems to have a pretty good following in the high-school and college aged crowd, it's likely there would be quite a few engineering students who could use the multimeter module for class/lab work. I would probably buy one myself just to mess around with.

Having bought just about every PC-connected multi-meter on the market (and yes, that includes pen-type scopes, etc), I can say that I probably WOULD buy something IF IT WERE PRACTICAL.

The biggest problem, IMHO, with all of these mini-scope type beasties is that they are really nothing more than gadgets. The have SOME usefulness, but when you really need to get down to business, they won't do the job.

My personal opinions:

- It doesn't have to have amazing accuracy. The number of situations where I need anything past a couple decimal points is VERY small, and I believe that applies to just about everyone. If you're doing something that requires four places or more, you shouldn't be using a springboard module. Go out and get a high quality scope and use that. Many of the current devices tout their accuracy, but fall WAY short on features, and all that accuracy becomes useless to me.

- Give me *some* graphical stuff, but don't concentrate on it. I'm going to want a lot of numeric information on my screen, not a lot of high quality waveforms. The problem with most waveforms is that it's difficult to measure. You have to align lines, press lots of buttons, squint at hash marks, etc. I'd far rather look at some numbers, along with a lower-quality graphic of the waveform.

(Take notes from Fluke's products, and in particular their ScopeMeter products and their DMM with the waveform display, whose model# I can never remember... ;-)

- Give me a wealth of features. Really, features should be your primary product focus. Yeah, a nice selection of add-on probe tips and connectors would be nice, but I'd be more impressed if you answered my DAY-TO-DAY ELECTRICAL QUESTIONS.

For example, give me something to show frequency as well as voltage. Count RPM's for me, show duty cycle, allow me to put up 10 different kinds of measurements at the same time (volts + RPM + etc). Give me features like a trace buffer, time-log of whatever I'm measuring, sampling features, ability to save results in a memo-pad file, periodic operation while the HS is off (for extended sampling, for example), saving and display of waveforms, CALCULATIONS such as min, max, average. Data hold, delta calculations, etc. Give me a basic 8 or 16 channel logic analyzer (heck, I can build a basic one for $10 in garbage parts from RS). Give me a break-out box function for RS-232 signals, a tone generator, whatEVER! :-)

Throw in as much extra stuff as you can as reference data. Resistor color charts or calculators that can do basic electronics math. A reference of 74xxx series IC's (pinouts would be awesome -- talk to www.chipdir.com for example). A conversion calculator, matrix math, boolean/dec/hex conversions, etc, etc.

Honestly, features are going to either make or break this thing. I can speak from experience in that virtually all of the products that are similar fail because they just aren't useful in the real world. If you want to make a cool gadget, that's great, but I would sing HIGH praise to any such device that could really outshine the other products on the market right now.

HP made a name for themselves in producing modules for their calculators that did electrical math computation and reference data. You go into any decent electronics shop today and you'll definitely find an HP calculator with one of those modules in it. Look into the past history of their calculators and you'll find I'm right on target.

You have the potential to put yourself in the SAME spot. Make the Handspring, plus your meter module, the de-facto standard for this next generation of calculator users. If you do that, I guarantee that you'll reap profits 10x in excess of all the competitors.

Aside from Fluke and a couple others, no one has really done the portable-scope thing right. I have a 100B at home and I LOVE it. I often just PLAY with it because it's awesome to work with. If you could give me half the capability as that unit (again, not worrying too much about accuracy), I'd find a new spot on my bench for your product.

Also, I'm somewhat concerned about something said earlier, and that is regarding isolation and safety. You'll need to either restrict yourself to low voltages/current or put a lot of thought into isolation. I don't want to buy a new HS just because I measured 400v yesterday. :-)

Best of luck -- I'll be watching closely!

thanks,
bruce


[This message has been edited by bbergman (edited 04-21-2000).]

[This message has been edited by bbergman (edited 04-21-2000).]

Sorry, forgot one final comment: Cost.

What I'm willing to pay will depend on the features you offer. If it's another gadget and/or basic meter, I'm willing to fork over a max of say, $50-$75. If it looks like you have something really special there, and it's feature-rich enough that I'd consider it for a spot on my bench, I'm willing to pay $200 at the high end.

Keep in mind that the Fluke 100B costs $3000 new, and any decent meter with some useful detective features is going to run at least $100. Almost ALL of the PC-connected products out there right now run in the $100 to $800 range. Some of those "pocket scopes" are found in the wild for about $400, and don't do enough to really turn me on. You give me something awesome, and I'd be willing to up my range into that category.

Anything above $400 better be on-par with the high-end products from Fluke, HP, etc.

thanks,
bruce

I'm an engineer. I do R&D. I would love to have one but:
1) it must be priced to compete strongly with the existing multimeters which can already connect to my Mac or PC.
2) it must be properly buffered so as to guarrantee it is not going to fry my Visor. Rather important...
3) it must have good software to go with it for both using it on the Visor, logging and conduiting to my Macintosh (in my usual case) or PC.
4) it should have very good and open docs so I can wrote my own routines to access it so I can use it for specialty applications. Write up some basic hooks in yBasic, PocketC and provide them free to use and publish as long as they are used with your multimeter, of course.

quote:

---

Originally posted by LuckyChuck:
We're thinking that the price would run around $150, no more expensive that a decent digital multimeter costs.

---