VisorCentral.com (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php)
- Springboard Modules (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/forumdisplay.php?forumid=10)
-- when is MP3 player due out? (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=5371)

While I applaud Innogear's speed development of the MP3 player springboard, I think they have missed the mark in terms of price/performance and design.

Why plug a springboard module in, and then have it's own controls?? when you have the GUI of the VISOR?

It should be a lean-mean design - no buttons at all, just a headphone out jack, and a memory card slot. That way you get it as small as poss, and reduce cost too.

$225 is WAAAY over what I would pay for an MP3 springboard, as others have rightly compared it to standalone units.

Hmmm - when is MK II due???

Thanks

Dave

I agree with Dave that it would be nice to see a (presumably smaller and lower-budget) version of the MiniJam without the buttons.

Personally, I like the fact that buttons are part of the design--they provide tactile feedback that you can't get from the screen. Buttons are also practical when you are unable or unwilling to take out your Visor, turn it on and look at the screen to control the music. If you happen to be jogging would you rather be able to feel the buttons to, say, go to the next song or have to whip it out, turn it on, look at the screen, touch the screen (or hope that you can touch it because your hand shakes as you feet strike the surface), then put it back to where you have it secured? That's why Walkmen have buttons. How many times have you had to take that out while jogging, besides to change a tape? Everything is focused on feel. Also, the MiniJam has buttons because it can function as a stand-alone unit.

[This message has been edited by swendor (edited 04-11-2000).]

"If you happen to be jogging would you rather be able..."

Swender, most of the people here would never go jogging with the visor, they could hurt it, however something that was designed with this in mind, could allow jogging. I agree, buttons would be nice but 225 is ludicrous.

The buttons on the Visor itself would be enough for me. With those 6 you can have STOP, PLAY, FWD, RWD, and VOLUME UP and VOLUME DOWN (or PAUSE and RECORD if a volume wheel is included on the hypothetical button-less MiniJam). To borrow a trick from my old Discman, you could hold down the FWD or RWD buttons to fast-forward or rewind within a track. I know that someone is thinking that fiddling with cases would make using the buttons less convenient, but I would rather deal with that than have to ditch my case every time I wanted to use my MiniJam. Swendor, I'm sure Dave realized that taking off the buttons would render the MiniJam unusable without the Visor. I for one would be happy with such a springboard if it were cheaper and small enough to fit in my Visor case.

[This message has been edited by burningyen (edited 04-11-2000).]

Does anyone know if Diamond, the Rio 500 makers, are still planning to release the X64 MP3 module? That one was supposed to come without physical controls.
Back when the first Springboards were demoed at Internet World, a couple of guys from VisorCentral gave it a negative review for using only the screen.

I don't think the buttons add as much to the price of the MiniJam as some people seem to think. Remember, the base unit (zero-memory) is allegedly one $99. It's the MMC cards that are expensive. And actually, they're pretty cheap compared to Handspring's flash RAM module: $125 for 64mb compared to $80 for 8mb. And I believe that memory can be used for anything, not just MP3s.

[This message has been edited by Gameboy70 (edited 04-11-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Gameboy70 (edited 04-11-2000).]

Does anyone know if the Innogear mp3 player will be able to work as a stand alone unit? It looks like it could be used as a basic player with no display if Innogear makes some sort of battery unit you could plug the MiniJam into. I think it would be nice to get the MiniJam because then I would only have to use the Visor cradle to sync mp3s as opposed to buying another MP3 player where I would have to plug in yet another cable/cradle.

Thats exactly what they are planning on doing. They said, however, that it won't be available until some time after they release the MP3 player. Something about them just concentrating on getting the minijam out ASAP, and worrying about the rest later. Forget where I read that, but I heard it somewhere.

Hey Innogear--

I must say that I have been immensely excited since I first read about your springboards back last year. I am almost surely going to buy a 6 pack when it comes out (if the price is right). I was quite eager to buy the MiniJam as well, but now have decided against it. It seems ridiculous to pay $200 for an MP3 player when a CD player can be bought for $10-15 nowadays. This is a general complaint about MP3 players, not just you guys. However, I bought a Rio300 with my ValueAmerica dollars and the rebate to make it cost about $25. Since using it, I have realized that I really do like portable MP3 players and would be willing to pay more for one. However, $100 is the max I'd pay. Especially considering that one of the most expensive parts of a good MP3 player, the LCD display, is already there, it seems this device should be considerably cheaper than its competitors. Also, use of a weird memory technology makes it even tougher to buy (I already own smartmedia cards--now I gotta buy MMC?).

I know you can't change the design at this point, but the price should be variable. I don't know how much these things cost to make and how much profit margin you need, but I doubt these will sell too well at a price about $200.

Consolidating devices is nice... an MP3 player in my Visor is cool... but neither of these features is worth $225.

I'll stick with my Rio 300. Can't wait for the 6 pack though!

------------------
JakeBlues2
"the BAND!"

Folks $200 is NOT all that bad (and I'm not shilling for Innogear here.

They are selling the hardware for $100 bucks. You can then go out and buy the flash memory from Sandisk (SNDK). When Sandisk has postage size flash memory chips that hold 128 per you should still be able to use the MiniJam, in other words, you're upgrading memory not hardware ... think about this folks.

OK, sucking the hell out of the battereis is NOT a cool thing, but http://www.extendcomputer.com is. I sent them an e-mail telling them I was interested and they posted me back saying something was in the works.

OK, I'll get off my soapbox now.

First of all, I think it's super that the Inno guys are participating in this forum, and taking the time to interact with the users.

I'd like to take advantage of that and comment. I relish the idea of having an MP3 player for the HS, but the specifications as described by Inno will deter me from buying it. Here are my reasons:

1) Batteries. I agree that you're sort of stealing from Paul to pay Peter by complaining about the lack of internal batteries, but it DOES matter. I depend on my HS being pretty much usable anytime, and if I am constantly worrying about the lifetime of the batteries (especially as short as 5-7 hours), I am held hostage by carrying around an extra set "just in case". I could care less whether my MP3 player batteries expire, as long as my HS batteries are in full force. Having an internal set of batteries on the player would solve this problem. I realize space is an issue, but I'd much rather pay for a little rechargeable lithium-ion "gum pack" on the thing than to have it eat my HS batteries.

This would also give us the added advantage of being able to play the unit outside of the HS. Which brings me to my next point:

2) I am the owner of a good half-dozen modules, and I expect to get more. There is only ONE slot, and already the modules are competing for priority. What good is an MP3 player (without integral power source) to me when I have another module in the HS? None.

For example, I'm traveling by train up the coast, and I want to play some Tiger Woods golf while listening to music. Can't do it. I can do one or the other, but not both. Same applies for any other module.

3) Cost. $225 isn't TOO bad for an MP3 player, but when you figure in the issues above, it becomes unacceptable. I'd rather pay for some little rechargeable guy that I can carry with the HS and get FULL functionality from both. Heck, right now I carry a Sony MZ-R37 minidisc player, and damn, that's about the perfect package. The unit is smaller than a HS, lasts 13hrs on rechargeable batteries, and I can carry around 74min/disc of awesome music at all times. It cost me $130, NEW.

If Inno finds some way to get an MD player into a springboard slot (with its own power source, yada, yada), I'd be interested in that...

4) Buying a Inno MP3 player ties me into a particular platform that will quickly be obsolete. By that, I mean that MP3 players have been improving and evolving so fast it's hard to keep track of them. Look at the new Sony "stick" MP3 player. In another year, we're going to have even smaller and more powerful MP3 players to choose from. If I buy an Inno player, I'm *forced* to use it with the HS or else I can't use it. That means I'm effectively tied to it until or unless I purchase a standalone player.

The same logic applies to springboard modules. We're less than a year into the HS, and already we've got 10-12 tangible products, and another 10-12 vapor products. Imagine what it will be like in 12 months... I can easily envision myself finding some super module (perhaps like the SixPack!) that I just MUST have for my HS. If that's the case, I'm not going to want to pop it out just to play music.

My best advice: add external power to the player and make it cheaper. You do that and you have a good chance of getting back my vote. Right now, the cons outweigh the pros.

thanks,
bruce

Can't we all just get along? But seriously, it looks to me like the only design that will meet us all halfway on this question of which batteries to use would be one where the MiniJam allows for some sort of battery hump to be attached to the back of the springboard, which, if detached, allows the MiniJam to draw on the Visor's batteries. It might look ugly when detached, but I'd be willing to live with it in order to trim the excess fat and weight from the unit. What does everyone think of that?

Originally Innogear had said that they would be releasing an add-on battery pack for the MP3 player, allowing it to be used outside of the Visor itself. Does anyone know if this is still true? Also, in sticking with the original post, does anyone have an exact month when the player will be released?

Lucky:

AFAIK, Innogear still plans to release an external battery unit to work with their modules. Unfortunately, Innogear's not committing to a precise date, or even month for that matter; only "summer."

I think that the ability of the MiniJam to upgrade to new types of music besides MP3 and store programs and files, voice record and play back audio books. Some MP3 players offer some of these features but nat all. I will be buying-64megs and all!

Has anybody really stopped and thought about how they are going to put 64Mb of music on the MiniJam MMC?

Hotsync/AvantGo/BackupBuddy take long enough as is with USB. Now everytime I replace the 64Mb of music, I'll have to change batteries on my Visor after I'm done anyway.

Sometimes it just boggles the mind. Just my .02 dollars. I'm personally interested in the module, but might back off now...

Carl

Now if you could setup music, talk show download, sports news, etc in a format like Avantgo now you've got something. But the battery life and download time will keep me from buying one of these.