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-- Palm/OS 3.1 - can it be upgraded? (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=1573)

I read somewhere that Visor's Palm OS 3.1 can not be upgraded since its in the ROM.

As far as I know Palm IIIx can be upgraded to whatever comes out next.

What is correct?

Both statements are correct.

DC

Not exactly.

The PalmOS on the Visor can probably be upgraded the same way PalmOS was upgraded on Palms prior to the PalmIIIs -- by installing a patch just like you'd install a piece of software.

This probably wouldn't be practical for a major upgrade, i.e. 3.x to 4.x, but it might be doable for a minor patch/upgrade, like 3.1 to 3.3. Besides, a large chunk of 4.x will probably deal with new hardware, so there might not be much point in upgrading this gen of Visor (or PalmIII/V/VII for that matter) to 4.x.

I think the only real drawback of the lack of flash is not being able to store added software into flash, and I'm not gonna miss that ability a whole lot.


[This message has been edited by bearpaw (edited 09-25-1999).]

That's it!

I buy a Palm IIIx now - and maybe a Visor some time next year.

But I think the Visor will bring more activity in the now stagnant PDA market.

I am sure we will see even much better products coming out next year. For now its IIIx.....

Just looking for some insight into this "problem".

I just got off the phone with Handspring Tech support. (I think Steve was his name)

I was calling regarding the possibility of not being able to upgrade the Visor OS when new OS's become available. Steve informed me that I was correct and that you can not upgrade to a new OS because of the type of ROM used by the Visor. (Not a flash ROM)

This is also a problem that Visor is not currently addressing and he didn't know if it would be in the future.

I would like to now if I am being overly concerned by this possible hinderense (quirk) of the Visor.

If not, I may change my order for a Pro and step down to a "standard" model.

Thanks in advance.

CZ

Don't worry about the non-upgradable ROM. The current OS is outstanding.

-Achilles

The Visor can have it's OS patched. In thery they could patch it to a whole new version of PalmOS, but it would use a lot of memory to do that (I'm guessing PalmOS itself is around a meg, the built-in apps taking much of the rest of the 2M ROM).

The older Palm devices didn't have FLASH either, you could upgrade them (or some of them at any rate) with a little plug-in card. The Visor may or may not do something like that in the future.

I wouldn't worry that tehere will be some horriable bug in the Visor's version of PalmOS that makes it useless. That we would see a patch for.

I do worry that we won't see all of the future PalmOS improvments. Some of them I'm sure will be no big loss (support for hardware we don't have for example). However I expect PalmOS 4.0 will probabbly have Sun's KVM in it, which is about 600K, so it would make a hefty patch. That I might be upset at not having. Then again I'm rather fond of writing code in Java, and after reading about all the restrictions on writing PalmOS code in C, I'm not that intrested in doing any of that.

I'm still going to buy a Visor. After all 4.0 is a ways off, and Handspring has a decent chance of having an affordable upgrade path. To hedge my bet I'm going witht eh Delux where I can afford to kiss off a lot of space for patches.

Realistically when 4.0 comes out there will probbably be a new wave of hardware. Even without 4.0 there should be a lot of intresting stuff going on now that Palm has relitavly liberal licencing of PalmOS. I may well want a new toy by then. I know if there are color Palms that arn't slow and don't eat batterey like there is no tommrow I'll want one. Especally if they have a springboard slot...

But until then the Visor really does look like a great deal. I would worry less about the lack of FLASH in a Visor then I would about the lack of a Springboard in a Palm.

Of corse if you decide to go for a Palm with FLASH there should be lots of Palm IIIs for sale cheep in mid-October. I know mine will be.

Hold on. Where does it state the Visor ships with OS 3.1. This has been posted many times here and on other newsgroups. Handspring does not say the Visor ships with OS 3.1, only that it ships with an operating system "based on" the Palm OS. People have reported the Palm Vx is currently in stores (even though the announcement is not expexted until October 4, 1999) and that it has OS 3.3. If this is true, and OS 3.3 is now "out", maybe, just maybe, the Visor will also contain OS 3.3.

Another thing to realize is that all previous updates to the OS have been very small in size. 1k-3.5k or so. Not a huge concern even in a 2M device.

can someone clarify the OS version issue for us? Which one ships with visor? Handsprung?

According to Handspring's Faq on the Visor :

Q. What version of Palm OS does Visor use?

A. Visor is based on Palm OS version 3.1. We have made improvements on top of the core operating system which include support for USB and the addition of several applications (e.g. advanced Date Book, advanced calculator, world clock).

How can you worry about the OS upgradability if you have not yet even used the device? It's like saying an Audi S8 drives like a Yugo without actually sitting in the driver's seat.

If the OS is rock solid, why the need for upgradability. All you're interested in as a consumer is the ability to obtain/purchase Springboard modules to help you in your work/play environment. These modules will ensure that they work properly with the Visor device, not the other way around.

If one allows upgradability, think about this, if 3COM releases a patch or an OS upgrade that was say not 100% compatible with your Visor, they could essentially cripple HandSpring's device, just like Microsoft used to do when they kept releasing this little bits of code to 3.10 -=> 3.11 -=> 3.12 etc..to break applications that were in direct competition with their MS applications.

Having no upgradability is not such a bad thing. It's the Springboard modules that you should be worried about. Will this Springboard concept take off? IMHO, that is the question to ponder, not whether the OS is upgradable, but whether the Spingboard is the key to Visor's lifespan on this gadget-laden world.

** Reposted by Eric **

The PalmOS has a well designed patch system. For example I currently have OS version 2.0.5 installed in my non-flash capable Palm 1000. (It came with 2.0)

I think Jeff made the right decision to lower the cost of the Visor by eliminating the Flash memory. Every major PalmOS upgrade has required new hardware, Flash or no Flash.

I would be shocked if we didn't have to buy a new PDA when PalmOS 4.x comes out. (That includes Palms with Flash memory.) Hopefully 4.x will include color or at least increased display resolution and this will require new hardware.

I can't believe all the messages on this site about this issue and how obsessed some of your are about it. It won't be a problem trust a longtime Palm user.

-Eric

Do all of these people buy cars with the intention of changing their motor for a better one every year? From what I understand the Palm OS is excellent and should do for years to come. I have win 98 on my computer at home but use Win 3.1 at work. Win 3.1 works fine, and that is after how many years?

redmud, you're right, almost. Yes, Windows 3.1 works fine, if you're in a vacuum. You can't run the latest Web browsers under 3.1. Nor can 3.1 support USB. Modern software and peripherals need Windows 95 or 98. So, while your computer and its older software and peripherals all work, they don't work as well as a current system will. A 1955 VW Bug will get you to work just like your current car, but you really wouldn't want to drive it every day in all conditions.

However, very little software totally fails to work as you move up the Palm OS food chain. Updates may be required, but many of my Palm OS 2 software still runs fine on OS 3.3.