VisorCentral.com - Lawsuits and cameras everywhere one day?

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Posted by CallmeGoof on 11-14-2000 07:40 PM:

Pictures of SixPak

Ok all. I was wondering the same thing, why have pictures of a product that does not exist? Truth be told, it does exist! As I said in my last reply, they are testing it with the compatiblity to certain cellular phones. Hello, they have the merchandise, they are getting all the info together in order to make sure that we the consumer get what we are looking for. So there would be pictures of the product even though it has not been released...

CallmeGoof

Posted by lennonhead on 11-14-2000 10:55 PM:

Re: Jeff Hawkins

quote:
Originally posted by CallmeGoof

1. Price! InnoGear $199 (32mb) $259 (64mb); Good Tech $269 (64mb)
2. Max Storage! InnoGear 128mb, Good Technology 64mb. Did I neglect to mention that you can not even upgrade with the Soundsbad (opps, slip of the tongue, Sounds not so Good!)?

First of all they both come with the same amount of memory (64 MB). Secondly, for only $10 more you get a springboard module that is the size of, well, a SPRINGBOARD.

quote:

4. System Requirments! The MiniJam is the only product that is MAC OS compatible!

And that is why at the moment I do not own a MP3 player for my Visor.

Posted by CallmeGoof on 11-14-2000 11:19 PM:

Mac and Storage Requirements

Ok Lennonhead,

First of all, the MiniJam is capable of 128mb, there is two slots for the MMC cards! Not like Soundsbad. One card slot for only one 64mb card! I think I will stick with my MiniJam!

Second of all. I have a Mac as well! It works great. Your loss if you do not wish to purchase it, go ahead and wait...

CallmeGoof

Posted by fubar on 11-15-2000 08:08 PM:

Re: Jeff Hawkins

quote:
Originally posted by CallmeGoof

You really don?t have a clue do you?
<snip>
Besides Jeff! I have called InnoGear, they have not released the product due to testing for cellular capability! At least they are trying to get the facts straight before releasing. (You could learn from them.)

Hey Goof,

Do you work for InnoGear..?? Sure sounds like it, the way you are willing to take whatever they say on the phone as the truth...
I think the problem here is that they have told us unrealistic stuff for so long, that no-one (with any sense) is willing to believe them anymore. You however, seem to take their explanation as gospel... What do you think they would say...?? "Oh no, we've been found out. We can't get it to work, you're right. If it ever comes out at all it'll be maybe a three-pac or four-pac depending on what we can get to work before we go bankrupt." Of course they're going to give you the company line about how it's in de-bug to make sure we all get a super-duper product... It's just that anyone who's been following this for any amount of time has heard it all before.

__________________
-------------------------
how did it all go so wrong?
--------------------------

Posted by CallmeGoof on 11-15-2000 10:37 PM:

Reply...

Jeff,

How about this? Ok oh my, I have been found out! My original reply on here was to say that getting all bent out of shape for those who have no control of the situation is stupid! Pointing fingers to make yourself feel better is a waste of time.

The reason I have been defending InnoGear is that I LOVE MY MINIJAM!!! It works better than I thought! The service I recieved from there customer service and technical support department was superb! Everyone on here is doing nothing but bashing the company and they are not all that bad.

Point taken that they have not meet expected ship dates, oh well! If I was that desperate, I would have bought from somewhere else. Besides, you are not breaking a law by not meeting your ship dates. Everyone knows that with new product delays will occur. I am willing to accept this and wait patiently.

PATIENCE IS A VERTUE!!!

CallmeGoof

Posted by CallmeGoof on 11-15-2000 10:39 PM:

Jeff,

By the way, I do not work for InnoGear. However, if they offered me a job, I would take it! I would love an opportunity to help this new company make it! And I know that I would make a lot of improvements.

CallmeGoof

Posted by kalrand on 11-16-2000 03:08 AM:

The real reason that the sixpak is delayed...

Innogear is unsure about how to put it out.
Heres the break down:

Marketing wants to send the whole project to scrap heap, as they feel that then name "SixPak" might attract undue attention from groups such as MADD and AA.

The techies want to take a weekend all to themselves and "play around" with it, in a plan to rename it "The Kegger".

Middle Management want to get the whole thing straightened out as fast as possible.

The PR department is demanding another board meating because they "accidently" put their trust in Marketing, while meaning to go for the techies.

Manufacturing is desparately trying to remind the company that they havent fully decided, eventhough no one else cares, because their division is too small to matter.

A lone secretary named "Samantha" stirred up grumblings as this whole ordeal began, claiming that there was no real differance between the techies and marketing, as they both speak funny.

Accounting didn't bother to make any decision and are watching the whole thing unfold on Visorcentral, repeating how "Any other company would have gone belly up under this stress, while Innogear will follow all of its internal rules" and how "everyone will embrace the decission fully once this whole thing is sorted out."

The overseas divisions cant believe accounting is serious.

Kalrand
The Voice of Reason

[Edited by kalrand on 11-15-2000 at 10:12 PM]

Posted by Vertigo on 11-16-2000 07:42 AM:

Re: Reply...

quote:
Originally posted by CallmeGoof

How about this? Ok oh my, I have been found out! My original reply on here was to say that getting all bent out of shape for those who have no control of the situation is stupid! Pointing fingers to make yourself feel better is a waste of time.

It's negative feedback. Second of all, they are not pointing fingers, they are making very valid complaints. I could also say that defending Innogear on this website is a waste of YOUR time.

quote:

The reason I have been defending InnoGear is that I LOVE MY MINIJAM!!! It works better than I thought! The service I recieved from there customer service and technical support department was superb! Everyone on here is doing nothing but bashing the company and they are not all that bad.

Your counter strikes have absolutely nothing to do with the topic : THE SIXPAK DELAY. We are also not debating Customer service or technical support.

quote:

Point taken that they have not meet expected ship dates, oh well!

Did you even have to wait? Your attitude seems too carefree. From your 'date registered', I would think that you have no idea about any of the delays people here have gone through. I'm sure you could be nothing more than enthusiastic if you just bought your visor 2 weeks ago. Then discovered that a MP3 Springboard was already on the market. For the rest of us, we have had to sit through endless lies from Innogear.

quote:

If I was that desperate, I would have bought from somewhere else. Besides, you are not breaking a law by not meeting your ship dates. Everyone knows that with new product delays will occur. I am willing to accept this and wait patiently.

I'm sure everyone here expected ship delays, but not delays of AN ENTIRE YEAR. That is ridiculous.

quote:

PATIENCE IS A VERTUE!!!

Is spelling also a Virtue?

quote:

CallmeGoof

Ok, your a goof.

Posted by CallmeGoof on 11-16-2000 03:57 PM:

Vertigo

Lol. Ok I think you have no clue what my original defense was to. I was saying that blaming the customer service department and distribution center have no control over this situation.

As far as defending InnoGear, honestly, I am not trying to defend them. I am saying that blaming the people in the distribution center is wrong. I would blame the Pres of InnoGear. I think that all GRRRness should be directed that way.

And yes I am debating customer service because that is what Slacker was putting down. Believe me, I WANT THE SIXPAK as well!!! I am waiting just like everyone else, in anticipation.

As far as my registration on here. A friend had referred me to this website. I have been waiting for nine months now, if I were pregnant, I would have a child! Believe me I know the meaning of waiting. Good things do come to those who wait.

I do agree with you that a year is a long time to wait. Too long... But you know something, I am still waiting too. And that is how they got me, I have NO choice but to wait.

So sorry about my spelling errors. And YES I AM A GOOF!

CallmeGoof

Posted by conio on 11-19-2000 01:11 AM:

Re: Re: Reply...

quote:

quote:

PATIENCE IS A VERTUE!!!

Is spelling also a Virtue?

quote:

CallmeGoof

Ok, your a goof.
[/B]

While we're at it, it's "you're," not "your."

This thread is far too off-topic.

__________________
Sam

Posted by CallmeGoof on 11-24-2000 06:11 PM:

lol

Lol. Can you say GRRRRRRR, I know I can...

Posted by Vertigo on 11-25-2000 04:19 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Reply...

quote:
Originally posted by conio

quote:

quote:

PATIENCE IS A VERTUE!!!

Is spelling also a Virtue?

quote:

CallmeGoof

Ok, your a goof.

While we're at it, it's "you're," not "your."
This thread is far too off-topic.
[/B]

I KNEW someone was going to catch something

Posted by Tyric on 11-29-2000 09:19 AM:

I can't believe your guys are getting so worked up over this.

Rule of thumb - Don't plan on buying it until you see it on the shelves. Then start saving money.

Face it, everything is vaporware until it is in your hand. I've been waiting with bated breath for some sort of GPS to come out. HandyGPS came out, I read some bad reviews. I decided to wait. Another one will prolly come out in the next couple of months. Again, I'll hold off until I get to read some reviews.

Class action suit. Jesus! That's like threatening to sue a flirtatious gal cause she keeps giving you blueballs.

Tyric
Looking at the sixpack, I can't help but think that the techs at Innogear have a certain pointy haired boss.

Posted by CallmeGoof on 11-29-2000 03:00 PM:

Tyric

Hey. The only reason, I am getting all worked up is because Slacker was attacking others for the delay of the SixPak. In my opinion, blame should be placed on who is directly affected by the situation. So blaming two people by name and the fulfillment house only confuses the situation.

CallmeGoof

Posted by bkbk on 11-29-2000 03:57 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by dkessler
quote:
Originally posted by bkbk
This goes way, way, way beyond "deceptive advertising," I believe to the level of fraud, and I think meriting a Class Action Suit.

Really?! And just how exactly were you "damaged" by this "deceptive advertising"? Did your company go out of business because your product couldn't compete with the phantom six-pak? Did you sell one of your internal organs to raise money to buy one on the promise that it would be available soon?

First of all, you of all people needn't have responded to my "charges" against Innogear. I believe we all know by now what a great huge heart you have shown in your project to help the Visor community, without lusting after exhorbitant profit, and are known to be an eminently reasonable man.

Indeed, in order for me to rebut virtually any of the ideas you presented in your post, it is necessary for me to extrapolate into the world "as it should be," as you are quite correct in virtualy all of your assumptions "as it currently is." (I can also see that it may take more time and words than I have the time for right now, so I may have to cut this short.)

But we, as human beings, sort of have a "philosophical duty" (this is largely well-settled among the preeminent thinkers of this earth, if you check the world's literature on the subject) to continually improve our lot, this earth, and the human race. (It is essentially the simple answer (shades of the Palm OS!) to the question: WHY IS MAN HERE? To continually strive for improvement, making things more "as they should be." Like wiping out world poverty, for ex.)

And you, as a human being, are essentially diametrically opposite of Innogear "as a human being." (So it is, in fact, pretty preposterous that you've come to their defense. Though I can see where you may have confused: "They're developers," for "They're developers, just like me." They are NOT "just like you." THAT is their PROBLEM.)

Indeed, it's a shade unseemly for me to have to say, but most of the Palm developers seem to share your kind of "developer ethic" - and I'd cite this for at least 90% of the success of the Palm platform.

On the other hand, Innogear (and a lot of the SB developers) seems to share, for lack of a better quick handle, something we might label: "The Microsoft ethic" - and a big reason it's been so hard for them to make headway against the Palm OS, developers and community.

Another GREAT and CRUCIAL difference is the WAY you present yourself to the world with nothing but persistent careful clear steady communication - once more, STARK contrast with Innogear. They put up a "corporate-looking" website AS IF THEY SHOULD BE TRUSTED LIKE IBM. I'm fairly certain you were careful NOT TO, because (even subconsciously) you KNOW that to do so about the product you're presently working on (in Beta, I believe, right?) would then have been DECEPTIVELY presented. IBM EXPECTS to take a blood bath if they defraud their consumers, even mistakenly. Innogear, by presenting themselves as they have, should expect no less - and start paying lawyers, just like IBM (or HP, or AOL) would have to do.

So ... have I tipped my hat enough that I'm one of the philosophers in the group, or need I actually state it (consider it done, right)?

When I refer to Innogear "as a human being," I refer to a model of looking at reality that should be routine - but is not, simply because it "seems suprising at first blush." And, unfortunately, most people never seem to think with any more depth than what they perceive "at first blush."

Larger entities, like corporations and "Evil Empire's" (like Darth's - uh, I mean, the old USSR) FUNCTION NO DIFFERENTLY IN THEIR SICKNESS THAN MENTALLY ILL PEOPLE.

It basically comes down to a matter of LIES. (Synchronistically, last night there was a PBS documentary on Hitler's Germany and the astounding lies, self-deception and denial they told themselves, their people, and tried to project onto the world - all ABSOLUTELY INDEFENSIBLE "historical re-writings" about their "destiny as the Master Race," etc.)

Mental health is: "Ongoing dedication to reality at all costs." Hence, it's opposite, is madness. (Being "on drugs" is a simple proof of this.) Truth is sanity. Lies are insanity.

There is ABSOLUTELY NO LEEWAY in the foregoing. And it REALLY IS THAT SIMPLE. It was ALWAYS thus, and ALWAYS will be thus. Think it through yourself.

Of course, there is a continuum, with extremes at either end. I'm not saying Innogear is the Third Reich. But they, we, and everyone should worry about their misguided, malevolent tactics, and our and our laws' (both "social law" and "book law") "tolerance" of them.

AND CERTAINLY HS should be very, very concerned about Innogear. They have seriously tainted HS, the entire notion of the SB, and the MARKETABLE GOODWILL that HS has worked so hard to attain (esp. shortly after their initial launch).

HS SHOULD CERTAINLY SUE INNOGEAR FOR THEIR PERSISTENT FAILURE TO EXERCISE THE SIMPLE (darn! that word again!) "TRUTH IN ADVERTISING" we all expect, legally, when doing business w/companies in the U.S.

Do not utter "Caveat Emptor" in the DEAD LANGUAGE OF LATIN. That DEAD phrase was for a DEAD time, and not for corrupt laws, lawyers and court systems to abnegate their responsibilities by uttering.

THE WORLD HAS BEEN TOO COMPLEX FOR THE "BUYER TO BEWARE" OF ALL THE LIES, DECEPTIONS, PSYCHOS AND FRAUDS THAT PERSISTENTLY COME DOWN THE PIKE (a news report the other day noted that 30% OF THE U.S. CAN BE DEFINED AS MENTALLY ILL) FOR MANY, MANY YEARS NOW.

It is the JOB of the laws, lawyers and court systems to BEWARE ON OUR BEHALF. Hence they are either: 1) too STUPID or 2) too EVIL to know this. (There are no other choices.)

Personally, there is NO CHANCE I would have went with HS over Palm, absent the "SixPack" lie. And I trust others were similarly duped. (And it is NEVER the fault of the "consumer / duped," but ALWAYS the fault of the "seller / dupee" - whether or not the courts are too lazy to admit it and get off their butts and protect our rights, for which they are paid. BY THAT ARGUMENT, EVIL IDIOTS LIKE TV'S "JUDGE MATHIS," WHO LIKE TO "MAKE FUN" OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN DECEIVED ... I GUESS WOULD SUPPORT THE "CONNING" OR OTHER ABUSE(S) ANYONE MIGHT INFLICT UPON A RETARDED PERSON. Oh, wait: "Caveat Emptor!" Get Out Of Jail, Free! Olly, olly outs-in-free! Not on me! Not my responsibility!)

Are Innogear's tactics already at the level they need to be taken down (and maybe HS with them? or maybe by HS itself?) by a Class Action suit? We'll have to see.

I see no reason the "SixPack" idea can't be undertaken by any number of other HONEST vendors.

Before I sign off, you should know I had plenty, plenty more to write (just to note, not to dissuade anyone from rebutting or exercising their freedom of speech / expression), but I'm irksomely aware that people "don't like" long posts, regardless of what they have to say (since it's such a burden to scroll past them, isn't it?), so maybe I'll address this more in the future. But I'll probably end up writing a book about it anyway.

[Edited by bkbk on 11-29-2000 at 11:34 AM]

Posted by timmins on 11-29-2000 04:36 PM:

I want to say you have a well written thought. Some people may not agree with you, but don't take it personally. We all have our own strengths of attachment.

__________________
what?<br>

Posted by Hoser_back_home on 11-29-2000 09:05 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by bkbk

quote:
Originally posted by bkbk
This goes way, way, way beyond "deceptive advertising," I believe to the level of fraud, and I think meriting a Class Action Suit.

But we, as human beings, sort of have a "philosophical duty" [DELETED TEXT FOR BREVITY] to continually improve our lot, this earth, and the human race. [MORE WORDS DELETED FOR THE SAKE OF MAKING THIS CONCISE] To continually strive for improvement, making things more "as they should be." Like wiping out world poverty, for ex.)

[A WHOLE BUNCH MORE DELETED]

It is the JOB of the laws, lawyers and court systems to BEWARE ON OUR BEHALF. Hence they are either: 1) too STUPID or 2) too EVIL to know this. (There are no other choices.)

[DELETED EVEN MORE]

I can not believe you have both these arguements (statements?) in the same 'arguement'!

'Improve our lot on earth' and 'It is the job of the laws, lawyers, and court systems...'

wow. now i have seen it all.

I'm not sure what the majority of the public feels like, sir, but I do NOT believe throwing the court system (e.g. Lawyers) is the solution to EVERYTHING on this earth! In fact i'd say it has probably caused more damage than it has solved.

give me a break. I am SICK and TIRED of people answering problems with the infamous 'LET"S SUE!' bull-crap.

(these words are mine and in no way related to Visorcentral.com based on my association as a 'Discussion Moderator')(excuse me in a brief moment of weakness? or 'soap-boxing')

__________________
Ever feel like the train left while you were busy reading the paper?

Stealth-Mod.

Posted by Bret Snyder on 11-29-2000 10:07 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by bkbk
... (I can also see that it may take more time and words than I have the time for right now, so I may have to cut this short.)

This is the short version?

__________________
Bret Snyder<BR>If you don't know where you're going,<BR>You'll probably end up somewhere else.

Posted by bkbk on 11-30-2000 05:42 AM:

Bret -
Yeah, can you believe it - and I've actually been working on this problem I have w/ brevity for a long while now.
You see, it all started long ago, once upon a time...
Ah, nevermind...

Hoser -
Dude, no offense (and feel free to check w/others), but I can hardly make any sense of your posting for the 1st few paragraphs.
You're right, the legal system is atrocious.
But people MUST have justice - it is likely the PARAMOUNT value here on earth (whether to be free from fraud, violent crime or racism, for ex.)
And they WILL get it, one way or the other (I guess this only shows just how important it is to them).
Before the courts, there was only Smith & Wesson:

GOD MADE MEN,
S&W MADE THEM EQUAL
But I believe we in the tech. age we can now "top" this old truism:
... AND VIDEO MADE THEM JUST.

People only NEED to sue because of some injustice. And gunplay and other such "retribution" / "revenge" / "getting even" is illegal almost everywhere. So, in a sense, we're "lucky" to have a legal system to resort to. (Of course, at rock bottom, the legal system also relies on either brute force or the threat of it to "get things done," but that's another can of worms for another time. AND THE VERY FIRST CAMERAS WE INSTALL MUST BE IN THE SQUADCARS AND PRECINTS, TO WATCH THE POLICE; IN THE COURTS, TO ENSURE JUDGES ARE NOT CORRUPT; AND IN ALL CITY, STATE AND FEDERAL BUILDINGS TO ENSURE TAXPAYERS ARE NOT RIPPED OFF BY MALINGERING OFFICIALS AND CROOKED POLITICIANS.)

MOST injustices (I believe) could be DONE AWAY WITH BEFORE THE FACT if we would only have VIDEO (+AUDIO, NOT SILENT) CAMERAS EVERYWHERE (like they presently do in Monaco and Britain, where crime is *microscopic* as a consequence).

Even the most depraved, evil psychotics, like the Hitlers, Mussolinis (Guilianis - heh, couldn't resist) ONLY DARE TO LIE WHEN THEY KNOW THEIR LIES WILL BE PLAUSIBLE (or, the converse, "PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY"). Their GREATEST FEAR is for their mental illness to be exposed before all others (they're trying to dupe) by SUCH OBVIOUS & OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE (which can essentially ONLY be provided by a synch sound & pix recording, which does not rely on the "standard weaknesses" of our legal system: testimony (by those who don't even remember); circumstantial evidence; "false" time-lines; "faked" documents; etc., etc., etc.), WHICH WILL TURN THEM INTO LAUGHINGSTOCKS WHEN THE PATENTLY OBVIOUS TRUTH EMERGES ON VIDEOTAPE AND EXPOSES THEIR EMBARRASSING LIES.

Of course, like any freedom-loving American (or anyone), it pains me to consider that I'll be somewhat less free with my every word & deed being recorded. But people can watch me walk down the street now - and "testify" to it later (often erroneously, which VIDEO CANNOT DO). So it's not so bad, IMHO.

BUT UBIQUITOUS VIDEO, I THINK, IS THE CLOSEST WE WILL EVER GET TO HAVING GOD'S WATCHFUL EYE ON US ALL ON THIS EARTH. Sadly, this seems quite necessary, as God seems to have better things to do than administer justice here and now for us.

So we must all wait for Judgment Day...

...when the TRUTH (judged by the "most mentally healthy person" - God; it's instructive, since I've touched on religion here for a moment, that the "LEAST mentally healthy person" - Satan's nickname in the Bible is THE FATHER OF LIES) CAN NO LONGER BE HIDDEN (from God / justice, and all things will be set right, etc.)

TODAY, you only get "real justice" in the movies, which is of course too sad & pathetic. (In fact, I'd argue that that's what powers the career of our very top stars, Eastwood, Stallone, Ford, Willis, etc. And let's never forget Jimmy Stewart in the Frank Capra films.)

Darn, I've not been brief yet once again! (I'll keep working on it, I swear - I'm actually working on kind of a new form of writing that should improve this for us all. More detail another time - *if* I can squeeze it in w/some relevancy somewhere.)

[Edited by bkbk on 11-30-2000 at 01:04 AM]

Posted by JHromadka on 11-30-2000 02:16 PM:

Um, have you ever read 1984?

From Merriam-Webster:

quote:

jus�tice (jsts)
n. The quality of being just; fairness.
The principle of moral rightness; equity.
Conformity to moral rightness in action or attitude; righteousness.
The upholding of what is just, especially fair treatment and due reward in accordance with honor, standards, or law.
Law. The administration and procedure of law.
Conformity to truth, fact, or sound reason: The overcharged customer was angry, and with justice.
Abbr. J., j. Law
A judge.
A justice of the peace.

What does justice have to do with product release dates? Should we sue Apple for taking an extra year with OS X? Windows 95 was supposed to be the last DOS+Windows; should we sue Microsoft for changing their minds?

quote:
Originally posted by bkbk
MOST injustices (I believe) could be DONE AWAY WITH BEFORE THE FACT if we would only have VIDEO (+AUDIO, NOT SILENT) CAMERAS EVERYWHERE (like they presently do in Monaco and Britain, where crime is *microscopic* as a consequence).

I encourage you to read The Register and see some of the things UK companies have done to consumers. Even if (big if) cameras lower physical crime, that does nothing to protect consumers from businesses.

I know you're pissed that the SixPak hasn't come out yet, but lawsuit ==kneejerk !=S&W

__________________
James Hromadka
Old Friend

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