VisorCentral.com - Is WinXP Going too far?

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Posted by foo fighter on 06-12-2001 12:51 AM:

Re: Split Personality

quote:
Originally posted by slotmachine
I am horrified as a consumer, and gleeful as a developer abour Bill's New Windows Order. I plan to 1) make an additional backup of my Win 2K and Office 2K CDs, because I will obviously be using those for a long time and

But since XP, product activation, hailstorm, and .NET all lie in your future, doesn't it bother you that ultimately Windows may be a dead end for your needs? It has me staring at the ceiling at night. Is subscription computing for me? Do I really want Microsoft arbitrarily deciding what applications I use, and how I use them? Do I want my PC to become one big cash register for MSN services?

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Posted by dick-richardson on 06-12-2001 12:58 AM:

Explain to me why MS feels the need to add such traditionally consumer hostile features. I don't understand how they're going to get money by doing this.

Aside: I'm plenty happy I jumped the MS bandwagon. It'll be interesting to see how my job is affected by Microsoft's gluttony. I can see small biz computer assembly places taking a hit if XP proves lack-luster (big boys, too, come to think of it).

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Posted by foo fighter on 06-12-2001 02:03 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson
Explain to me why MS feels the need to add such traditionally consumer hostile features. I don't understand how they're going to get money by doing this.

Why? Same reason a dog licks his genitals...because he can!!! Give Microsoft an inch, and they will take the whole yard stick.

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Posted by JHromadka on 06-12-2001 02:47 AM:

Re: Re: Split Personality

quote:
Originally posted by foo fighter
But since XP, product activation, hailstorm, and .NET all lie in your future, doesn't it bother you that ultimately Windows may be a dead end for your needs? It has me staring at the ceiling at night. Is subscription computing for me? Do I really want Microsoft arbitrarily deciding what applications I use, and how I use them? Do I want my PC to become one big cash register for MSN services?

I know you weren't asking me, but it bothers me a lot. Americans like "to own stuff." That's why people prefer to own DVDs instead of renting them, and why people that use a software product at work will eventually buy it for home use.

I don't like a list of "approved apps" to use. When I got my Mac, it opened up a new world of apps to try out. That was part of the excitement of Version Tracker (which we've talked about before).

Hailstorm seems to be more about storage of personal info, and with MS' track record on privacy, stability, etc, I would have a very hard time with trusting my SSN, cc, and other data with them.

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Posted by slotmachine on 06-12-2001 03:15 AM:

Re: Re: Split Personality

quote:
Originally posted by foo fighter

But since XP, product activation, hailstorm, and .NET all lie in your future, doesn't it bother you that ultimately Windows may be a dead end for your needs? It has me staring at the ceiling at night. Is subscription computing for me? Do I really want Microsoft arbitrarily deciding what applications I use, and how I use them? Do I want my PC to become one big cash register for MSN services?

As a consumer, definitely. If all the features discussed here go into the final product, a lot of home users (including me) will start looking for alternatives. Mic is telling the home market "pay up or pack up". Linux anyone?

On the other hand, my gut feeling is that business will not leave Windows, and the homegenous .NET environment makes my job easier.

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Posted by foo fighter on 06-12-2001 03:28 AM:

Re: Re: Re: Split Personality

quote:
Originally posted by slotmachine
On the other hand, my gut feeling is that business will not leave Windows, and the homegenous .NET environment makes my job easier.

True. Corporations are not going to dump Windows just to thumb their noses as Microsoft. But if MS does begin squeezing revenues out of enterprise licensees, the landscape could change.

It's hard to say what impact .NET will have on developers or the Windows platform. But oddly enough, .NET could be the best thing to happen to Linux and Macintosh. By offering web based software and services, it won't matter what platform your using.

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Posted by JHromadka on 06-12-2001 04:32 AM:

MS is also putting the squeeze on big business by changing the license so they have to upgrade the OS every 3 years. I think it would be some time before corporations ditched MS, but if Apple and the Linux distributors can start getting those big contracts, the winds could change.

My big plan over the next year is to learn *nix and turn my Dell into a Linux server. I'm sure Houston has a job market for that kind of knowledge.

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Posted by foo fighter on 06-12-2001 04:45 AM:

Yeah. I'm sure IT departments just love the idea that every 3 years they have to spend a huge amount of their budget on upgrading to the latest Windows/Office release. That's going to go over real well.

My personal favorite pressure tactic was Microsoft offering prizes to people who rat out local PC shops that sell computers without an operating system. Who the hell thought this idea up? Turn in a PC shop..and get a free BarBque grill or a set of lawn chairs. Good god!

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Posted by dick-richardson on 06-12-2001 04:49 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by foo fighter
My personal favorite pressure tactic was Microsoft offering prizes to people who rat out local PC shops that sell computers without an operating system. Who the hell thought this idea up? Turn in a PC shop..and get a free BarBque grill or a set of lawn chairs. Good god!

No sh*t?!?!?!

__________________
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Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Posted by bblue on 06-12-2001 04:49 AM:

Yeah.

What would be cool, is if Apple upped it's iTools service to "compete" with Hailstorm , for free.

Hey, iDisk is a life saver, and a mac.com email rocks! I'd love to see them take it to the next level!

---

But on another note, product activation will probably kill off most Windows users. Almost everyone I know of NEVER upgrades their OS. They simply buy a new computer every 4-5 years. That's how I think most people go, too.

It'll be great for Mac & Linux though.

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Posted by dick-richardson on 06-12-2001 04:51 AM:

Is Joe Consumer aware of this? I can't believe MS expects people to go for this.

__________________
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Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Posted by foo fighter on 06-12-2001 04:54 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson

No sh*t?!?!?!

No sh!t. That was the plan!

To be fair, Microsoft did see the error of its ways and repealed this plan very recently. You can read about it by snooping through CNET or ZDNET's news archives.

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Posted by slotmachine on 06-12-2001 10:44 AM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Split Personality

quote:
Originally posted by foo fighter

True. Corporations are not going to dump Windows just to thumb their noses as Microsoft. But if MS does begin squeezing revenues out of enterprise licensees, the landscape could change.

Agreed. Mic's new technology, along with the forced upgrade coming this fall, is similar to killing the goose that laid the golden egg. Mentally, IT managers had Mic. on autopilot. Even though few may actually dump Mic. in this new environment, a seed has been planted in people's heads now. Mangers that never thought of non-Mic. options are now clicking around on Linux websites. First the click. Later the P.O.

Although I still think a breakup would have been to severe, I hope some kind of strong regulatory action is taken against them. Put a guy in the office adjacent to Bill's with a G4 cube, an Edge, and the power to make his life a living hell whenever he tries these Medieval tactics.

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Posted by BudPritchard on 06-12-2001 02:20 PM:

Denial of Service Explosion

See www.grc.com for Steve Gibson's discussion on raw sockets avaialble in XP.

quote:

From BRIAN LIVINGSTON: "Window Manager" from InfoWorld.com, Monday, June 11, 2001
.......
Windows XP will have a new capability
called Raw Sockets, an old Internet spec that already
exists in Windows 2000 and Unix machines. Raw Sockets
can put out data packets with faked IP addresses. This
was proved when Yahoo and other major sites were
brought down by Unix zombies in highly publicized
attacks in February 2000. But Unix servers usually
have trained administrators, many of whom have taken
steps to prevent a recurrence.
..........
The danger, Gibson asserts, is that Windows XP will add
the ability for any application to send packets
bearing faked IP addresses. There's no perfect way for
a Web site to defend itself against such a flood,
because you can't distinguish the incoming hacker
traffic from the ordinary customer traffic. Gibson is
alarmed about XP's new capability, saying, "There's
absolutely no valid reason for any machine on the
Internet to be able to lie about its return address."

Posted by Toby on 06-12-2001 04:20 PM:

Re: Denial of Service Explosion

quote:
Originally posted by BudPritchard
See www.grc.com for Steve Gibson's discussion on raw sockets avaialble in XP.

General consensus in the security world is that Gibson's a kook. Raw socket support is available on all of the previous OSes mentioned as well with a simple library replacement. If somebody can trojan a 9x/NT machine, they can add this functionality at the same time.

http://www.stake.com/security_news/arch.html?060501

Posted by foo fighter on 06-12-2001 04:20 PM:

Uh oh!

Hey, it looks like there may yet be a chance the breakup will go forward after all!

I was just watching TechTV covering a news blurb on the MS appeals trial. The story mentioned that the appeals court just recently updated its timeline for releasing of "opinion" or ruling. Still no date for a ruling, but apparently, a ruling will now take place after the closing bell of trading, and not on a Tuesday or a Friday. It seems like the court is trying to minimize the impact its ruling will have on the markets, which could indicate this will be a heavy decision (breakup).

If I were Ballmer, I would start reaching for that bottle of Pepto!

The games afoot!

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Posted by slotmachine on 06-12-2001 06:13 PM:

Re: Uh oh!

quote:
Originally posted by foo fighter
Hey, it looks like there may yet be a chance the breakup will go forward after all!

I was just watching TechTV covering a news blurb on the MS appeals trial. The story mentioned that the appeals court just recently updated its timeline for releasing of "opinion" or ruling. Still no date for a ruling, but apparently, a ruling will now take place after the closing bell of trading, and not on a Tuesday or a Friday. It seems like the court is trying to minimize the impact its ruling will have on the markets, which could indicate this will be a heavy decision (breakup).

If I were Ballmer, I would start reaching for that bottle of Pepto!

The games afoot!

Hmmmm... could Bill have taken the appeals court ruling for granted. I would have least held off on XP until the ruling. Serves them right if it happens. Although, a separate OS comapany would still hold an OS monopoly.

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Posted by JHromadka on 06-12-2001 06:34 PM:

Re: Re: Uh oh!

quote:
Originally posted by slotmachine

Hmmmm... could Bill have taken the appeals court ruling for granted. I would have least held off on XP until the ruling. Serves them right if it happens. Although, a separate OS comapany would still hold an OS monopoly.

... but wouldn't be in bed with the Apps side. I really like the fact that I can delete IE from my Mac with no negative effects. It would be nice to see the day when Windows components are no longer applications but actually apply to the OS. Being a former Netscape user, I never liked how IE forced itself into Windows and don't like how WMP forces itself into WinXP.

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Old Friend

Posted by EricG on 06-13-2001 06:51 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by bkbk
I think XP will be a big boost to Linux.

All this nonsense with XP , .Net and kin is why I am gradually trying to become less dependent on Windows and move towards Linux.. As I use *nix's a lot, Linux doesn't bother me, but unfortunately, Linux isn't there yet for the average Joe & Mary consumer.

I wish OSX ran on intel hardware.. oh well..

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Posted by EricG on 06-13-2001 07:03 AM:

Re: Re: Denial of Service Explosion

quote:
Originally posted by Toby

General consensus in the security world is that Gibson's a kook.

Agreed, although I think he snapped a while ago..

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