VisorCentral.com - My Edge isn't working!!!

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VisorCentral.com (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php)
- Visor Edge (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/forumdisplay.php?forumid=25)
-- My Edge isn't working!!! (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=18673)

Posted by ChipX86 on 10-10-2001 05:54 AM:

I just stumbled across this thread. I thought I was the only person with this problem. It happened last Wednesday, and they were nice enough to send a replacement, which arrived Friday. However, that Edge has a horrible streaking problem. I'm almost afraid to get another Edge, as I am 0 for 2.

Since I bought the Edge about a month before they dropped the price to $299, I've considered asking them if they would just replace my Edge with a Pro or Neo, but I probably won't get very far with that. Has anybody tried this or anything similar?

I'm fairly nervous about this now, as this isn't my first PDA with problems. I went through 5 broken Palms a few months back (and the store confirmed that they were broken, so it wasn't my doing )

Posted by Toby on 10-10-2001 12:39 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by ChipX86
I just stumbled across this thread. I thought I was the only person with this problem.

Far from it. If you look in one of the links I posted, you'll see that an informal poll here showed roughly half of the people that responded had a 'problem Edge'. Although I'd think that the real world percentage would have to be lower than that for Handspring not to acknowledge a serious problem, it's still fairly significant as a percentage at the time.

quote:
It happened last Wednesday, and they were nice enough to send a replacement, which arrived Friday.

Well, I probably could have gotten a replacement as well, but...

quote:
However, that Edge has a horrible streaking problem. I'm almost afraid to get another Edge, as I am 0 for 2.

This seems to have been the norm. IIRC, nearly everyone who has gone through the replacement Edge rodeo wound up exchanging several before getting a 'good one' or simply giving up and going to something else.

quote:
Since I bought the Edge about a month before they dropped the price to $299, I've considered asking them if they would just replace my Edge with a Pro or Neo, but I probably won't get very far with that. Has anybody tried this or anything similar?

Their official policy will be to deny your request, but I imagine a very determined user might be able to work something out.

quote:
I'm fairly nervous about this now, as this isn't my first PDA with problems. I went through 5 broken Palms a few months back (and the store confirmed that they were broken, so it wasn't my doing )

Personally, I think Handspring has struck out with this issue in my book. My Edge is going to stick around for a few months while I figure out what my next handheld will be, and then it will likely be sold for parts to someone like GetHighTech.com. Really a sad way to end a business relationship with a company, but when they tell you that the only way around your problem is to reset at least twice a week and keep your PDA away from any sources of EMF (monitors and TVs specifically mentioned, although I'm not sure how I'll hotsync if that's the case) or RF, that just leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Reminds me too much of the Microsoftian "did you reboot?" first step of the 'troubleshooting' process.

Posted by septimus on 10-10-2001 02:30 PM:

If this RF thing is true, it gives me a newfound respect for Palm. HS couldn't get as small as the V, despite extra years to develop. When they tried to get close, there are RF issues!! Either HS needs some serious design help or Palm is really, really good!

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Posted by Toby on 10-10-2001 03:07 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by dietrichbohn
If this RF thing is true, it gives me a newfound respect for Palm. HS couldn't get as small as the V, despite extra years to develop. When they tried to get close, there are RF issues!! Either HS needs some serious design help or Palm is really, really good!

Yeah, but what doesn't make sense is that Hawkins undoubtedly had at least _some_ role in the Palm V, so why couldn't the Edge be less vulnerable to RF/EMF? The only reasonable conclusions that I can see are: 1) it's really _not_ that vulnerable to it, but tech support didn't have a real explanation and didn't want to spend time finding one, so they punted or 2) they skimped on the production somewhere that Palm didn't when they came out with the Palm V, or 3) both. Personally, I lean more towards 2 since they were able to permanently lower the prices on the Edge PDQ. That suggests to me that they were socking it to the consumers to achieve maximum profit off the few suckers (like myself) who bought one early in the game or they're going to take a bath on the Edge.

Posted by dick-richardson on 10-10-2001 03:39 PM:

I'm leaning more toward #1. I've had plenty of problems with their tech support. I've found more intelligence on these boards - hence my only coming here for tech support.

I seriously SERIOUSLY doubt it's an RF thing. My edge's cradle is right next to (and often touching) my iMac with no trouble; not to mention all the times I've set it on top of a computer screen or television at work. I'm of the considered opinion that it's a digitizer problem. I'm not sure what hardware controls the digitizer, but it needs better.

That said, I would still pay $400 for my edge. Aside from piss-poor QC and tech support; lack of consumer support and accessories, it's a damn fine device.

quote:
originally posted by chipx86
I'm almost afraid to get another Edge, as I am 0 for 2.

Send it back. If anything about this pisses me off, it's HS's attitude wrt edge support. They made the damn things, make them back them up.

Toby, it's a shame I can't convince you to at least get replacements until you sell it.

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Posted by Toby on 10-10-2001 04:04 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson
I'm leaning more toward #1. [...]

Not beyond the realms of believability at all.

quote:
I seriously SERIOUSLY doubt it's an RF thing. My edge's cradle is right next to (and often touching) my iMac with no trouble; not to mention all the times I've set it on top of a computer screen or television at work.

My Edge's cradle has no option _other_ than to be near my monitor. That's where my USB hub is located (integrated into the monitor).

quote:
I'm of the considered opinion that it's a digitizer problem. I'm not sure what hardware controls the digitizer, but it needs better. [...]

Definitely.

quote:
Send it back. If anything about this pisses me off, it's HS's attitude wrt edge support. They made the damn things, make them back them up.

Toby, it's a shame I can't convince you to at least get replacements until you sell it.

I would if I thought it might make a difference, but there's another issue. They said they wouldn't send a replacement at the moment since it wasn't acting up anymore.

Posted by dick-richardson on 10-10-2001 04:11 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
They said they wouldn't send a replacement at the moment since it wasn't acting up anymore.

I'd walk the line between truth and misdirection by calling the 888 number, telling the lowest peon that answers the phone that I had a faulty edge and that a hard reset didn't fix the problem. They'll ask if you've dealt with tech support (and God knows you've dealt with them more than anyone should be forced to...) and you'll get a replacement tomorrow - if precedent holds true.

Although, were I in your shoes and going to be replacing the edge in a month anyway, I don't think I'd piss around with it. It's just too bad they're not getting called on it.

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Posted by septimus on 10-10-2001 04:33 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson
I'd walk the line between truth and misdirection by calling the 888 number, telling the lowest peon that answers the phone that I had a faulty edge and that a hard reset didn't fix the problem.

Ditto. I wonder if there's been a policy shift at HS, they're no longer in placation mode, and their trying to protect their bottom line by not replacing these...

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Posted by Toby on 10-10-2001 04:39 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by dietrichbohn
Ditto. I wonder if there's been a policy shift at HS, they're no longer in placation mode, and their trying to protect their bottom line by not replacing these...

Seems to be a 'cutting one's nose off to spite one's face' type reaction, though.

Posted by ChipX86 on 10-10-2001 04:51 PM:

I forgot to mention this in my post yesterday. For those who are concerned about the fee for calling in to the tech support line if you have had your unit for over 90 days, this should be good news.

When I sent back my first Edge, I asked about that, as I really did not wan to have to pay to get a working Edge, when I felt that it was their fault. The lady on the phone told me that despite the message, this will be starting January 2, 2002, and it does not apply to people with broken Visors. She basically told me that it's a tax on people who can't go read their website . So if it's a simple question that you can find online, they'll charge you, but if your device just doesn't work, they won't.

Hope that helps

Posted by Toby on 10-10-2001 05:11 PM:

The saga continues...

quote:
Originally posted by ChipX86
[...] When I sent back my first Edge, I asked about that, as I really did not wan to have to pay to get a working Edge, when I felt that it was their fault. The lady on the phone told me that despite the message, this will be starting January 2, 2002, and it does not apply to people with broken Visors. She basically told me that it's a tax on people who can't go read their website . So if it's a simple question that you can find online, they'll charge you, but if your device just doesn't work, they won't. [...]

I'll bet they won't even talk to you until after they have your credit card information, though, at that point. That in and of itself is a bad sign.

Incidentally, here's the latest in the saga between me and Handspring. This was sent to 'Customer Care' and cc:ed to 'Support'.

[support person] wrote:
>
>
>Thank you for contacting Handspring Technical Support again.
>
>I have escalated your case and have made a request for this issue to be
>investigated. Someone should be getting back to you within a few business
>days.
>
>Please contact us again if you require additional assistance.

To whom it may concern:

I received a message on my answering machine regarding this issue. Upon returning the phone call, I was informed that my entire problem with my Edge was due to 'EMF interference', and that as a preventive measure I should reset at least twice a week and recalibrate my digitizer. Now perhaps I misunderstood what the tech was trying to say, but I fail to understand how resetting the Visor and recalibrating the digitizer would do _anything_ to prevent a problem supposedly caused by EMF. If a monitor, TV, or any other EMF source is going to cause the device problems, it would seem that resetting would do nothing to prevent it. Further considering the number of occurences of this issue (see links below for examples), it would seem that if this is a known issue, that it should either be under investigation for a _permanent_ fix, or resetting the Edge twice a week should be added to the documentation, should it not?

Links:
http://discussion.visorcentral.com/...?threadid=13486
http://discussion.visorcentral.com/...?threadid=13360
http://discussion.visorcentral.com/...?threadid=13638
http://discussion.visorcentral.com/...?threadid=13424
http://discussion.visorcentral.com/...?threadid=18673
http://discussion.visorcentral.com/...?threadid=18746
http://www.jimweller.net/article.php?sid=15

Ultimately, all that I am trying to do is get the value out of a PDA for which I paid over $400. If I cannot rely on this one to function properly without having to reset at least twice a week and avoiding computer monitors (rather a difficult prospect for an IT professional), then it has _no_ value. Can Handspring do _nothing_ for a customer in such a case? If this EMF problem is limited to the Edge, can it not be replaced with some other member of the Visor line of an equal value which is _not_ susceptible?

[contact info elided]

Posted by bejnarowiczd on 10-10-2001 09:30 PM:

EMF/RF!? Ya right....

It cannot be an EMC problem, or if it is Handspring could have a compliance issue!

Lift off the cover and noticed the little FCC and CE mark on the PCB. This states that the Edge complies with both US and European legislation with regards to emission and susceptibility to EMC, as declared by Handspring.

For Handspring to say that the device is susceptable to RF is essentially saying "We declare that our device DOES NOT meet the law"... double edged sword.

Still in doubt and want to test it? Place aluminum foil around the edge as a shield and tie the foil to a wire connected to a grounded or earthed piece of metal (Don't plug it in a wall! - or if you do maybe you deserve it-ZAP ). Still have the problem?? Then its not RF nor EMC.

my $0.02

Dan, Guildford, UK

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Posted by dick-richardson on 10-10-2001 10:32 PM:

Mine just crapped out on me.

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Posted by Toby on 10-10-2001 10:37 PM:

Re: EMF/RF!? Ya right....

quote:
Originally posted by bejnarowiczd
It cannot be an EMC problem, or if it is Handspring could have a compliance issue!

Quite possibly, but the way that I read FCC Class B guidelines, I don't think it's with the FCC.

quote:
Lift off the cover and noticed the little FCC and CE mark on the PCB. This states that the Edge complies with both US and European legislation with regards to emission and susceptibility to EMC, as declared by Handspring.

Well, not sure what the European regulations would state, but generally class B devices aren't supposed to _emit_ harmful radiations.

quote:
For Handspring to say that the device is susceptable to RF is essentially saying "We declare that our device DOES NOT meet the law"... double edged sword.

Maybe I need to temporarily move to Europe.

quote:
Still in doubt and want to test it? Place aluminum foil around the edge as a shield and tie the foil to a wire connected to a grounded or earthed piece of metal (Don't plug it in a wall! - or if you do maybe you deserve it-ZAP ). Still have the problem?? Then its not RF nor EMC.

Well, considering that I just walked into and out of the battery room in the telco central office and it isn't flaking out, I doubt if RF or EMF are making a bit of difference.

Posted by Toby on 10-10-2001 10:40 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson
Mine just crapped out on me.

Same problem? You're kidding, right? *raises eyebrow*

Posted by MarkEagle on 10-10-2001 11:51 PM:

Re: EMF/RF!? Ya right....

quote:
Originally posted by bejnarowiczd
This states that the Edge complies with both US and European legislation with regards to emission and susceptibility to EMC, as declared by Handspring.

For Handspring to say that the device is susceptable to RF is essentially saying "We declare that our device DOES NOT meet the law"... double edged sword.

The FCC statement from the Edge User Guide states:

quote:
This device complies with part 15 of the FCC rules. Operation is subject to the following two conditions: (1) This device may not cause harmful interference, and (2) this device must accept any interference received, including interference that may cause undesired operation.

The way it's worded, the Edge DOES meet the law (condition 2). Basically, it says the device can't cause any interference but has to live with any that affects it.

Now, if condition 1 applies to all electronic gizmos, shouldn't condition 2 be unnecessary?

If nothing causes interference, nothing can be affected by it, right?

__________________

God bless America, my home sweet home...

Posted by ChipX86 on 10-11-2001 01:02 AM:

I just got off the phone with HandSpring tech support. They're sending me a new Edge. They blamed my streaking problems and other problems I discovered (some shades of grey wouldn't display) on the NetWalk game, which I didn't install until after I found out about the streaking. He insisted that it was the game, but after a hard reset didn't fix anything, he finally decided he'll send me a new one.

At least they're not refusing replacements, unlike some other companies I've had to deal with in the past.

So I guess I'll be trying Edge #3. With any luck, I won't have to deal with them again

Posted by dick-richardson on 10-11-2001 01:30 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
Same problem? You're kidding, right? *raises eyebrow*

Nope, I'm dead serious. I jacked my wife's prism until I decide on a replacement device (this thing's a brick!) and have a buyer for the refurb. $300 with the hard case and pen stylus. HS customer support has a 10-15 minute wait right now, so I'm sitting on my thumb.

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Posted by TDS_Computer on 10-11-2001 06:06 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by sfhustler
THe guy told me to run the battery down, but how the hell am I supposed to do that? It has a 4 week life! I need the damn thing ready now!

To run down your battery, go to memo pad, create a new memo and Grafitti in a "Shortcut" (The fish-looking thing), a period, and then a 3. A message will appear saying [AUTO-OFF] and the Visor will not turn off until you turn it off manually. Reset it to normal operation by doing a soft reset or by going into prefs and changing the auto shut off time to something else.

Just don't do a "Fish-thing, Period, 1" - I tried it and it reset my visor in a bad way...

Doug

Posted by dick-richardson on 10-11-2001 06:18 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by TDS_Computer

To run down your battery, go to memo pad, create a new memo and Grafitti in a "Shortcut" (The fish-looking thing), a period, and then a 3. A message will appear saying [AUTO-OFF] and the Visor will not turn off until you turn it off manually. Reset it to normal operation by doing a soft reset or by going into prefs and changing the auto shut off time to something else.

Just don't do a "Fish-thing, Period, 1" - I tried it and it reset my visor in a bad way...

Doug

Good idea, except the edge is crashed. Hard. No way to turn it on.

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

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