VisorCentral.com - How *nix is OS X?

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Posted by dick-richardson on 11-07-2001 02:15 AM:

How *nix is OS X?

Is there a command line, games, etc etc etc?

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Posted by homer on 11-07-2001 02:26 AM:

It's basically a flavor of *nix. It has a command line if you want to use it.

Not sure what you mean by games...are you talking about unix specific games?

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Posted by bradhaak on 11-07-2001 02:47 AM:

It is fully licensed UNIX. It is a Mach kernel with BSD extensions.

It comes with all of the popular shells, utilities and system programs. This means that when you install it you have a firewall, Apache web server, FTP severs, etc. You also have the full UNIX filesystem. However, most of the filesystem is hidden in Finder from casual users. When you pop up a terminal session (I use z-shell), it is all there. Most of the UNIX utilities are turned off since most folks wouldn't want them on a single-user workstation.

QT has ported their graphics libraries over to OSX and a lot of 'NIX apps are being ported. There are also people working on KDE (shouldn't be too hard with QT running). The OSX version of GIMP just opens and X session in a window and runs in it.

BTW - you can download Darwin (the command line version of the OS) from Apples website. You can even get a version for PCs. If all you need is a command-line version of UNIX, this one is free and pretty good.

Posted by dick-richardson on 11-07-2001 02:52 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by homer
It's basically a flavor of *nix. It has a command line if you want to use it.

Not sure what you mean by games...are you talking about unix specific games?

I'm talking about tron. If it doesn't have tron, I'm not going to get it. That's final. I should be able to pull tron off my yellowdog disks, right?

I love yellowdog for power, finesse (sp?), and tron. I love OS 9 for ease of use and ease on my eyes. My mac partition is choking for more hard disk space (I have two 5GB partitions - one for mac and one for linux). I'm thinking OS X will give me everything I want, and since I'm going to repartition my hard drive anyway, I was debating whether or not to upgrade at this point. If I get a command line and tron, it's a done deal.

__________________
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Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Posted by dick-richardson on 11-07-2001 03:12 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by bradhaak
BTW - you can download Darwin (the command line version of the OS) from Apples website. You can even get a version for PCs. If all you need is a command-line version of UNIX, this one is free and pretty good.

Then what keeps Apple from porting the GUI to PC as well? Is Darwin basically the same thing as Bash? What are the hardware requirements for Darwin (IOW, can I put it on my 33MHz machine at home, or even my 386 laptop)?

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Posted by homer on 11-07-2001 03:24 AM:

quote:
Then what keeps Apple from porting the GUI to PC as well?

Their business strategy. Apple sells the 'complete experience'...the hardware + software. They like it that way.

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Posted by dick-richardson on 11-07-2001 03:41 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by homer
Their business strategy. Apple sells the 'complete experience'...the hardware + software. They like it that way.

I just thought it might be some hardware impossibility.

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Posted by dick-richardson on 11-07-2001 04:34 AM:

How OS 9 is "Classic"?

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Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Posted by homer on 11-07-2001 04:41 AM:

quote:
How OS 9 is "Classic"?

It IS OS9. OS9 runs within OSX. It's not like VirtualPC, though, where you have a window just for that OS, rather OS9 apps run directly within the OSX environment. They still act and look like OS9 apps.

The one exception being all Macromedia products. I can't get a damn one of them to run in classic mode within OSX without them crashing every 5 minutes.

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Posted by Yorick on 11-07-2001 05:43 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by homer
It IS OS9.

No it's not. It's a *NIX port of OS9. Not everything runs exactly identical.
Kinda like how "Classic" Coke isn't quite the same as what I enjoyed when I was small. (tho I think that's just the bottles.)

actually, bradhaak would know more for sure.

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Posted by Vertigo on 11-07-2001 08:54 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Yorick

No it's not. It's a *NIX port of OS9. Not everything runs exactly identical.
Kinda like how "Classic" Coke isn't quite the same as what I enjoyed when I was small. (tho I think that's just the bottles.)

actually, bradhaak would know more for sure.

Actually, yes it is. Mac OS X makes a type of 'shell' for a real Mac OS 9 boot disk to bootup in. I'm using it right now. You don't see the contents of the OS 9 volume's desktop folder, but you get all your Apple Menu items, controls panels, extensions, menulings, etc. directly as if you were using OS 9.

It's just as homer said. It's fully integrated.

Posted by Toby on 11-07-2001 03:20 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Yorick
Kinda like how "Classic" Coke isn't quite the same as what I enjoyed when I was small. (tho I think that's just the bottles.)

No, they just don't taste the same. Actually, I think they changed the sugar. Coke used to use cane sugar, AFAIK. Most soft drinks have changed from that.

Posted by bradhaak on 11-07-2001 04:44 PM:

Unlike Classic Coke, The OSX Classic mode really is OS9 running inside of OSX. Any apps that have followed Apples programming guidelines should run just fine. This means that apps that write directly to hardware (such as the screen), are the ones most likely to have problems. The kind of apps that blow up are generally multimedia apps and games. A lot of games blow up really well. Some just have little wierd behaviors. Total Annhilation still has the the dock floating around the bottom of the screen - it makes gameplay suck. There really isn't much excuse for this since Apple has been telling developers for over fifteen years to stay in the guidlines or possibly get screwed up with new OS releases. Every time the OS has been upgraded there have been a few apps that broke. This is just a much bigger upgrade, so more bad apps died.

If you have incompatible apps that you need to run, it takes about a minute to reboot into OS9. My needs might be a little different than most, but I haven't booted to OS9 for anything execpt games in a couple of months, and most new games are compatible with OSX.

Yes Darwin runs fine on PC hardware. I think that besides the obvious desire to control the entire platform, the biggest reason that OSX ihas not been ported to PCs (and no plans for the immediate future that I know of), is because of the device driver issue. Apple controls the hardware environment that OSX lives in. There are a limited number of processors, core logic sets, graphics cards etc. To enter the PC environment, it would have to support hundreds (thousands??) times as many different devices. With the chances of being able to pull this off and unseat Windows being pretty low, is it worth destroying the current business to take the risk?

BTW - did you see the rumors yesterday about Apple seeding independent developers with 1.6 Ghz G5 systems? I can't wait.

Posted by dick-richardson on 11-07-2001 05:02 PM:

What about tron?

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Posted by yosemitesamiam on 11-07-2001 05:05 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by bradhaak

BTW - did you see the rumors yesterday about Apple seeding independent developers with 1.6 Ghz G5 systems? I can't wait.

asphinctersayswhat? What did you just say there? Where did you read that? I want to know!!!

hehehe

Sam

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Posted by septimus on 11-07-2001 05:39 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
No, they just don't taste the same. Actually, I think they changed the sugar. Coke used to use cane sugar, AFAIK. Most soft drinks have changed from that.

You can still get the coke made from cane sugar, it's in the kosher section (look for Kosher Coke with the Kosher symbol)

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Posted by bradhaak on 11-07-2001 05:43 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yosemitesamiam

asphinctersayswhat? What did you just say there? Where did you read that? I want to know!!!

hehehe
Sam

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/39/22677.html

http://macosrumors.com/

Posted by homer on 11-07-2001 07:20 PM:

What makes Sugarcane more kosher than sugar beets?

Just curious.

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Posted by septimus on 11-07-2001 07:43 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by homer
What makes Sugarcane more kosher than sugar beets?

Usu., Coke is made with High Fructose Corn Syrup, not cane or beets.

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Posted by Yorick on 11-07-2001 08:36 PM:

since we're flying ino off-Off-Topic land anyway, here's a link to info about how Coke was made Kosher:
http://www.ajhs.org/publications/ch...?documentID=270

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