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-- future of springboards (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=19741)
Posted by yardie on 11-24-2001 06:27 AM:
Ubik NO
Ubik. Your post is ful of generalizations. You assumed that people are not happy with their Springboard Modules because fo the feature set. I wholeheartedly disagree. I think that most people DO like their springboards. In addition, alot of people (especially VCers) know exactly what they were buying when they got their springboard module. The exception here may be the Geode and Minijam..features were promised that did not materialized.
Posted by jonecool on 11-24-2001 08:14 AM:
Hmmm.
Ubik,
First of all, there is no such thing as a perfect product. Your statement that "every Springboard released falls just short of being a perfect product" is not the reason why Springboard are "perceivably" (by some) failing.
As there is no such thing as a perfect product (springboard or otherwise), this is why we have Versions of products. Did indeo stop at the poor resolution of the eyemodule (320x240)? Nope, they came out with eyemodule2 (640x480-Yipee for some, Yawn for others). Hardly a perfect product (in my opinion), yet they made signifigant progress over the previous version.
I have a few modules that, after installing a few patches (like version 1.63 of Memplug CF) can make a Springboard "closer" to a perfect device. When I first received my MemPlug, there were lots of Bugs/Crashes. After about 2 months and 2 Revs. of the the software, it's now the most versatile storage solution out there for any PalmOS device. Be sure to check the firmware version of the module before you state otherwise 
Fact of the matter is, there will be products that do reasonably well and there will be others that fall short of expectations. To say that all modules are failures is a very generalized statement as yardie stated in the previous post.
I would be interested in hearing the ideas/experiences that led up to your belief that most consumers feel that their Springboards are of less than perfect quality. Not to argue the idea of "Perfection" but what is it that led you to that thought? I am interested in hearing your point of view in more detail.
Posted by ubik on 11-24-2001 08:42 AM:
Re: Ubik NO
quote:
Originally posted by yardie
Ubik. Your post is ful of generalizations. You assumed that people are not happy with their Springboard Modules because fo the feature set.
I am assuming no such thing. In fact, most people who own Springboard modules have a vested interest in being happy with the Springboards they have shelled out hundreds of dollars for, and as such are quite happy with them.
The fact is that it doesn't matter if you are happy with the product AFTER you have purchased it. What matters is how eager you are to buy it BEFORE you make the purchase. If everyone who bought a Visor also bought 5 Springboard modules, Springboard technology would still have been a bust. When Handspring started up, they imagined the Springboard slot to be their main product, and the Visor was just one product that showcased that technology. Handspring was aiming at numbers far in excess of that of the existing PDA market, and was counting on Springboard technology to take them out of the PDA ghetto, and into the Walkman mainstream.
This strategy failed. The idea was that the Springboard modules would sell the devices that used them. The reality was that only a percentage of the people who owned Visors ever even bought a single Springboard module. I am not talking about the purchase satisfaction of those who already bought Springboard modules (or Visors for that matter), I am talking about why Springboard never became a compelling technology that actually sold Visors.__________________
The goal is to overcome the deliberate nature of the process.
Posted by ubik on 11-24-2001 10:12 AM:
Re: Hmmm.
quote:
Originally posted by jonecool
Ubik,
First of all, there is no such thing as a perfect product. Your statement that "every Springboard released falls just short of being a perfect product" is not the reason why Springboard are "perceivably" (by some) failing.
We can argue the semantics of what would be perceived as a perfect product ad infinitum, but there is little room for discussion as to what it means when you say a product is flawed. Therefore, I will simply change the wording to say that all the Springboards on the market have been released as somewhat flawed products.
Your argument of that being the purpose of product revisions is one that might make Microsoft engineers sleep better at night, but is hardly a comfort to the engineers at Bridgestone. I suppose that constantly staying on top of the latest firmware revisions is fine if you really see your PDA as PC you carry in your pocket, but it is hardly an expression of the "Zen of Palm."
Hell, most consumers don't even update the firmware on their PC motherboard, they are certainly not chomping at the bit to do it on their MP3 Walkman for their dayplanner. For a general market product to succeed, you have to be able plug it in and start using it right off the bat. Nobody wants to buy a VCR that only records after you download a firmware update, or a brand new car that only gets the advertised mileage after you have a mechanic give it a tune-up, or a storage solution that only lets you access files directly after the third firmware revision.
You ask how I came to these opinions? Simple, by asking people why they bought something other than a Visor. The answer always comes back in one of two categories.
1: People who bought another PalmOS device always comment on how unimpressed they are by the SB slot.
2: People who bought a Pocket PC always comment on how limited the Visor is, and how a PPC has most of the same features available as Springboard modules, built right into the device.
Of the people who bought another PalmOS, I always ask; why are you unimpressed with the Springboard slot?
Without fail they always point out that just about anything you can do with the SB slot, is done better and more reliably by a standalone unit or a PDA with that functionality integrated into the unit. I then get regaled with tirades about how they want to take notes on their PDA while talking on the phone, or how they don't want to eat up PDA memory storing GPS maps, or how if they wanted to use CF cards to store data, they would get a PDA with a CF slot. Now, I realize that there are answers and workarounds for all of these things, but that is just the point. People don't want to buy a workaround! They want to buy a product that works. The overwhelming perception is that the SB slot is just a way to shoddily tack on functionality the PDA should have been designed with in the first place.
Don't get me wrong. I have always been a big fan of the Visor. In fact, that is how I have come to understand its failings. I use to go on at great lengths about how anyone considering a PDA should seriously consider a Visor. That is how I came to hear so many reasons that people absolutely don't want one.
The simple truth is that most people see the Springboard slot as a total bodge job. I know the technology is sound, so that clearly is the fault of the companies who have made products for the technology. I mean come on, even in the stone-ages of PCMCIA there were not as many missed release dates, incomplete product launches, and after-the-fact patches as the average SB module manufacturer has stumbled through. Even the more reputable companies have had their fair share of promised products, killed before ever seeing the light of day, and don't even get me started about the multiple products that have been handed from one company to another like some sort of high tech hot potato.
All of these things are disastrous for consumer confidence in a fledging (and especially a fledgling proprietary) technology!
One of the most common examples of how consumers perceive the Springboard slot, is in the area of memory storage (by far the most common form of expansion). If a consumer goes out and buys a Sony handheld, and then wants more memory, they just go grab a MemoryStick, and are done. For their Visor, however, they first have to decide if they can make do with an 8 or 16MB Springboard module. If not, then they have to decide if they want to use SD, CF or MS. If they choose CF, then they need to figure out which CF module to get, and which CF cards will work with that CF reader.
Now certainly many people on this site would see that as a testament to the flexibility of the SB slot, but to most consumers it is a royal PITA! One which puts them off even more if they dare start looking at sites like this, only to learn that different versions of the same product have different form factors and features. If that wasn't enough, then they find out that to get it to work like they want it to, they are going to need to update the firmware. About this time is when they head to the store to pick up that Sony, because they have no doubt that a Sony MS is going to work in the device. They are equally sure that if Sony ever releases a digital camera for the device, it will work as advertised, as will the GPS should Sony choose to release it.
The whole point is that PCMCIA/CF has been around for many years, and you would have to look around quite a bit to find a bunch of people ranting about their awful CF products. SB, on the other hand, has barely been around two years, and even on the most cursory examination, you can't help but run across absolute horror stories about companies folding, products being canceled after very short product lives if they ever even saw the light of day, products not working as advertised, products not shipping on time, or at times even requiring an entirely new Visor to work properly! Meanwhile, there are hardly any complaints about Sony products not working with MS.__________________
The goal is to overcome the deliberate nature of the process.
Posted by culo77 on 11-24-2001 10:29 AM:
Ok i am not going to write a novel. no offense "ubik", I do value what you have to say. Plus love reading it, cause most of it is true.
butt all i got to say is "two years ago which PDA's had expansion?"
__________________
Hey baby before we start do you mind if we use my M505?
No not for that!!!!!!!!!!
Use it to reffer to PalmaSutra, silly???????
Posted by ubik on 11-24-2001 10:41 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by culo77
Ok i am not going to write a novel. no offense "ubik", I do value what you have to say. Plus love reading it, cause most of it is true.
butt all i got to say is "two years ago which PDA's had expansion?"
Short answer TRG, and the WinCE devices.
BTW, I know I tend to be wordy, sorry
__________________
The goal is to overcome the deliberate nature of the process.
Posted by culo77 on 11-24-2001 10:47 AM:
Yes handera an ugggg wince.
butt what i mean two years ago springboard wear the Clie's of today. back then SB was i great idea an palm os makers were pooping their pants trying to push out an expandable pda.
I betcha that palm sony handera laughd their booty's off when the "Personal Massager" SB came out.
I am going to buy it...just to see how people would look at me using it sitting in the library studying!!!!!
__________________
Hey baby before we start do you mind if we use my M505?
No not for that!!!!!!!!!!
Use it to reffer to PalmaSutra, silly???????
Posted by culo77 on 11-24-2001 10:51 AM:
oh and I like that your wordy
cause you dont ramble butt say meaning full points on your views.
i couldnt write that much for two reasons.
1. i cant spell or type fast 15wpm
2. nothing i say is worth paying attention to. shoot sometimes i gett bored of what i have
__________________
Hey baby before we start do you mind if we use my M505?
No not for that!!!!!!!!!!
Use it to reffer to PalmaSutra, silly???????
Posted by ubik on 11-24-2001 11:12 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by culo77
Yes handera an ugggg wince.
butt what i mean two years ago springboard wear the Clie's of today. back then SB was i great idea an palm os makers were pooping their pants trying to push out an expandable pda.
I take your meaning, but back then people were excited about the future of the SB slot precisely because of announced products like the SixPack, @ctivelink, InnoJam, Geode and Bluetooth connectivity. There was talk of SB games and all manner of serious and exotic expansion peripherals like oscilloscopes and network packet sniffers.
Now here we sit with some workable storage options, a decent digital camera that stores images in your already limited RAM, a universal remote that works great as long as you are over 50% on your battery meter, an overpriced underfeatured MP3 player or two, a wireless networking module as big as the Visor, GPS modules that offer no functionality over a standalone unit, a piggyback phone, and an odd cast of misfit modules that one would only buy because you have to find something else to do with the SB slot.
Not all that exciting, is it?__________________
The goal is to overcome the deliberate nature of the process.
Posted by Shirogomi on 11-30-2001 05:01 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by ubik
I take your meaning, but back then people were excited about the future of the SB slot precisely because of announced products like the SixPack, @ctivelink, InnoJam, Geode and Bluetooth connectivity.
And Bluetooth will probably be the way of the future for expansion anyway. Why bother plugging something in and increasing the bulk, when you can leave the expansion gizmo in your bag and access it wirelessly?
I could be wrong - seriously unaware of the data transfer speed of bluetooth - but it seems like a nice solution. Especially if the bluetooth modules now available as a springboard sit flush with the Visor.
