VisorCentral.com - Good American (Off topic)

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-- Good American (Off topic) (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=18260)

Posted by dick-richardson on 09-20-2001 05:29 PM:

Motivation is integral to an action. It defines the character of the person acting. America should be treated differently if it aided other countries out of self-interest vs. a sense of moral charity, if only because a selfish country shouldn't get the same regard as a selfless one (as well as defining how others should react to a given action - past or present, be it laud or derision). Even someone giving you a glass of water to make room in his fridge for beer does so with a modicum of charity. He/she could have drank the water or dumped it down the drain.

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Posted by K. Cannon on 09-20-2001 06:01 PM:

Oh Goody! Now it's a threesome!

I'll repeat myself "My point is that the motiviation of an act by one player doesn't necessary effect the end result of that act on another player."

quote:
from dick-r: Even someone giving you a glass of water to make room in his fridge for beer does so with a modicum of charity. He/she could have drank the water or dumped it down the drain.

The (unchanging) effect on me is that I don't die of thirst regardless of my friend's (changing) motivation.

Lord, you boys would argue with a fence post.

Posted by dick-richardson on 09-20-2001 06:16 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by K. Cannon
Oh Goody! Now it's a threesome!

Only if Toby is a woman, one of you is my wife, and the one that is my wife has accepted the arguments advanced in my treatise entitled, 'The Female Form, and Why It Should Turn You On."

quote:
The (unchanging) effect on me is that I don't die of thirst regardless of my friend's (changing) motivation.

But it would color your perception of your friend. You would expect a different response when asking for a favor in the future. You would (more than likely - if the sociologists are correct) require different conditions for favors you would bestow.

quote:
Lord, you boy's would argue with a fence post.

If I were presented with the opportunity, possibly.

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Posted by K. Cannon on 09-20-2001 06:20 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson
Only if Toby is a woman, one of you is my wife, and the one that is my wife has accepted the arguments advanced in my treatise entitled, 'The Female Form, and Why It Should Turn You On."

LOL!

quote:
But it would color your perception of your friend.

Possibly, yes, but at least I would be alive to have one.

Posted by dick-richardson on 09-20-2001 06:28 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by K. Cannon
Possibly, yes, but at least I would be alive to have one.

Which does not necessarily correlate with America's foreign policy. There are people who are not alive to harbor anti-American sentiments. And, as Toby mentioned, what unspoken conditions might be imposed for that water?

I do agree that you would be alive, but there are worse things than death.

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Posted by K. Cannon on 09-20-2001 06:36 PM:

I have re-read my comment that started this whole mess and it is "Why does motiviation matter when evaluating a result?" The result is I am alive due to the water. Period. Whether it is better to be alive or dead was not my point, although my use of the word "evaluating" may be misleading and in view of my use of that word, I can understand any confusion over what I meant.

Can we be done with this? I suspect this is a semantical argument that I no longer want to belabor, which I also suspect will delight most readers other than you, me and Toby. Post this one in your win column if you want to, but I give!

Posted by dick-richardson on 09-20-2001 06:46 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by K. Cannon
I have re-read my comment that started this whole mess and it is "Why does motiviation matter when evaluating a result?" The result is I am alive due to the water. Period.

My point is that there is more involved than just your life. You are alive under what conditions? Motivation matters in that regard. I think the problem is coming in at the definition of result. You look at the immediate, I look at others. You may win the lottery the next day and give half of it to Culligan, which in turn purifies the water that saves someone else's life. That is also a result of your friend giving you water. Or maybe it was contaminated with lead and you die a long, painful death. Short-term vs. long-term. Hypothetical vs. Relatively Concrete.

In other words, praise and/or criticism is cheap w/o an understanding of motivation.

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Posted by Toby on 09-20-2001 11:58 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by K. Cannon
I have re-read my comment that started this whole mess and it is "Why does motiviation matter when evaluating a result?" The result is I am alive due to the water. Period.

Therein lies the rub. You want to disconnect that one event from everything that went before and will come after. Life is not that simple.

quote:
Whether it is better to be alive or dead was not my point, although my use of the word "evaluating" may be misleading and in view of my use of that word, I can understand any confusion over what I meant.

I don't think I misunderstood what you meant. I'm merely disputing the granularity (or lack thereof) of reality.

quote:
Can we be done with this?

I thought we were done.

quote:
I suspect this is a semantical argument that I no longer want to belabor,

It's not semantical (or Symantecal) at all. It's more philosophical. Can reality be separated into single events separate of their causes and consequences is basically the question. Your argument rests on the assertion that it can. I think that's oversimplifying to the extreme.

quote:
which I also suspect will delight most readers other than you, me and Toby. Post this one in your win column if you want to, but I give!

*shrug* If you say so...

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