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mensachicken
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Registered: Oct 2000
Location:
Posts: 443

quote:
Originally posted by bradhaak
This is a superior product.

It is too expensive.

thanks. you're much more succinct than i.

mc

10-26-2001 06:25 PM

Potus
Member

Registered: Feb 2001
Location:
Posts: 138

quote:
Originally posted by mensachicken

why you're mentioning the vdx, i haven't a clue. the prism,
mc

Asked and answered.

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10-26-2001 07:37 PM

homer
Member

Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1683

Lots of interesting comments along the lines of what we are saying here:

http://macintouch.com/ipod.html

One thing the above article hints at is the fact that 'iPod' says nothing about music. Implying that Apple may have plans for this device beyond the music implications. It is, in fact, a very small, self-powerd, 5gb hard drive with a self-contained screen. That does lead to some interesting possibilities...

I wish I could afford one.

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10-26-2001 07:41 PM

sowens
Member

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 284

quote:
Originally posted by homer
Lots of interesting comments along the lines of what we are saying here:

http://macintouch.com/ipod.html

One thing the above article hints at is the fact that 'iPod' says nothing about music. Implying that Apple may have plans for this device beyond the music implications. It is, in fact, a very small, self-powerd, 5gb hard drive with a self-contained screen. That does lead to some interesting possibilities...

Heh, I was thinking about that as I was watching the video Steve's intro last night. Throw in a larger color screen (oh, like an OLED one) and include Quicktime, and you've got a nice, portable way to show off your Imovies.

quote:
Originally posted by homer

I wish I could afford one.

Amen, but the more I read about the Ipod, the more I like it, and the more tempted I get. I think it should have included a line out jack to make connections to car stereos a bit easier, and included some way to cover the FW port from the weather. Perhaps in the next incarnation.

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10-26-2001 08:06 PM

JHromadka
VisorCentral Staff

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Texan in Calgary for a while
Posts: 1361

Did you hear that there's a breakout game in the iPod? Saw this on Macaddict.com:

quote:
If you select "About" from the main menu, then hold the center button for a couple seconds, a mini breakout game appears on the screen. That's what I call an easter egg!

Ok now is the iPod worth it for you?

Maybe Apple could license Tetris and throw that in the next firmware upgrade!

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10-26-2001 09:51 PM

dick-richardson
Member

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 2531

quote:
Originally posted by mensachicken
nonsense. how can you say that amount of memory (i assume you mean storage space and not the 32k ram) is not a selling point. it is the MAIN selling point in any mp3 player.

I have a 100GB mp3 player for you. It's only $500. It comes in two full tower cases duct taped together (for an extra $50 I'll weld them together). To use it, you just need to plug it into to two power outlets, open the case and attach an ide cable to the hard drive that has the songs you want to listen to. Sound quality sucks ass because to get the $500 price tag, I had to forgo sound cards. The songs play out of the piezzo speaker included with the cases. But it's the best because it holds the most.

The drive itself costs $399, and you think adding mp3 decoding, a useable interface, and impressive battery life should make it depreciate in value? What do you have to smoke for that to make sense? But Apple didn't just add mp3 decoding - they added excellent sound quality. They didn't just add a useable interface - they added an intuitive one. They didn't just jimmy-rig together a method to connect it to your computer - they added a seamless one.

I'm happy you like listening to music. I am a music major. Listening to good music isn't a luxury for me, it's a necessity. Your claim that an mp3 player is all about storage shows your auditory ignorance. It's all about sound quality - which is only partly related to storage. It also includes the hardware producing the sound. Apple hasn't gone wrong with the iPod in that regard. Next in line comes storage. Apple hasn't gone wrong in that regard, either - while it may not hold all my mp3's, it would assuredly hold the ones I listen to most (and would hold more if the lowest mp3 had a bit rate lower than 192 kbps). Next is the ease of getting to those songs and the portability of the device (a combination of size and battery life). Apple hasn't gone wrong on those accounts, either.

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10-27-2001 02:39 AM

mensachicken
Member

Registered: Oct 2000
Location:
Posts: 443

quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson

I have a 100GB mp3 player for you. It's only $500. It comes in two full tower cases duct taped together (for an extra $50 I'll weld them together).

quite the comedian. (don't quit your day job.)

quote:
The drive itself costs $399,

really? that's funny 'cause here are the prices for firewire drives from my local reseller:

40.7 Gb Firewire External $415
81.0 Gb Firewire External $525

these prices are in CANADIAN dollars. so lop off 35% to get the us$ prices. mind you, these drives might not be the same brand and/or physical dimensions as the apple one (i don't have a firewire drive yet so don't know if they're all the same dimensions or if they vary, like scsi drives, for instance.)

so please, tell me where they're getting us$400 for a 5gb drive.

quote:
I'm happy you like listening to music. I am a music major. Listening to good music isn't a luxury for me, it's a necessity.

please, spare me the soapboxing. jolly for you that you're a music major. i wasn't attempting to get into a "music is important to me", "oh yeah, it's more important to me!" debate. i merely posted that information to make it clear that, contrary to what homer was suggesting regarding "my budget", i am in apple's target market.

i was attempting to point out the lack of logic in implying that simply because someone can afford $600 for a 5gb mp3 player (i can), doesn't mean they will do so (i won't). the product still has to be worth the cash. same as anything else.

(why do you think the visorphone flopped at us$499 upon its release. yes, great device. yes, first to market. yes, sure is handy. blah blah blah. it was too damn expensive. period.)

quote:
Your claim that an mp3 player is all about storage shows your auditory ignorance.

and the above quote shows your inability to read. i never said it was "all about" storage space. i said it was the main factor in purchasing an mp3 player. that doesn't mean there aren't other factors. (price, sound quality, size, transfer speed, durability, ease of use, and, to some people, appearance.)

quote:
It's all about sound quality

so, in your opinion, the ipod will have better sound quality than, say, the nomad?

quote:
- which is only partly related to storage. It also includes the hardware producing the sound. Apple hasn't gone wrong with the iPod in that regard. Next in line comes storage. Apple hasn't gone wrong in that regard, either - while it may not hold all my mp3's, it would assuredly hold the ones I listen to most (and would hold more if the lowest mp3 had a bit rate lower than 192 kbps). Next is the ease of getting to those songs and the portability of the device (a combination of size and battery life). Apple hasn't gone wrong on those accounts, either.

i never said apple went wrong in sound quality, storage space, portability, battery life, or any of the things you mention. where'd you learn how to read? i said one thing, that the damn unit is TOO EXPENSIVE for what you're getting.

yes, 5gb is a nice bit of space. but it's less than what's expected for the price. you disagree? hurray! go buy one. believe it or not, i didn't come here to post YOUR opinion. i came to post mine. believe it or not, they're different! let's agree to disagree before we regress to namecalling in the schoolyard, shall we?

anyway, we'll see what happens with the ipod when it comes out, won't we?

mc

10-27-2001 03:55 AM

homer
Member

Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1683

MC:

Do you read a complete thread before posting? Dick-Richardson was pointing out that the PARTICULAR drive the iPod is based on is retailing for $399. It DOES cost that much because it is SO SMALL, and completely self powered via the firewire port.

Show me a 5mb, fire-wire powered drive that is the same size as the iPod and THEN you might have an argument.

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10-27-2001 05:15 AM

mensachicken
Member

Registered: Oct 2000
Location:
Posts: 443

quote:
Originally posted by homer
MC:

Do you read a complete thread before posting?

yes.

quote:

Dick-Richardson was pointing out that the PARTICULAR drive the iPod is based on is retailing for $399. It DOES cost that much because it is SO SMALL, and completely self powered via the firewire port.

i wasn't sure--though i figured it was different from other drives, which is why i said: "mind you, these drives might not be the same brand and/or physical dimensions as the apple one (i don't have a firewire drive yet so don't know if they're all the same dimensions or if they vary, like scsi drives, for instance.)"

quote:
Show me a 5mb, fire-wire powered drive that is the same size as the iPod and THEN you might have an argument.

there probably isn't one to show you. but i really don't think it's as relevant as you're suggesting. as i posted previously, i don't think it matters if it's light as a feather and small as a postage stamp. these are not the factors that will determine whether the unit will sell. what will? whether the market will bear the price they're introducing it at, which i've said repeatedly, i do not feel it will. obviously, dick disagrees. so do you.

that is the problem with arguing hypotheticals--no one is right and no one is wrong. we'll have to wait and see, won't we?

mc

10-27-2001 05:38 AM

bradhaak
Member

Registered: Oct 2000
Location:
Posts: 380

quote:
Originally posted by mensachicken
so, in your opinion, the ipod will have better sound quality than, say, the nomad?

I got to spend another hour or so with an iPod today and I can tell you categorically as a Nomad owner that there is no comparison in sound quality. The iPod sound is much better. The UI is much better. The power consumption is much better.

By playing around and talking to some of the project engineers, I also found out a couple of other interesting things. The iPod carries a full version of the latest iTunes software. If you plug into a computer with an older version, it updates the computer. If the computer has a newer version, the iPod picks it up for updating other computers. On the flip side, iTunes also contains the iPod firmware, so that it will be updated automatically if there is a newer version on the computer. This is all handled by the standard Apple software update mechanism.

You can also play MP3s in iTune directly from the iPod when it is plugged into a computer. This would make it very easy to take music to someones house for a party without burning CDs.

Using the command shel in OSX, I navigated into the MP3 storage area on the iPod. From this, it looks like you cnould set iTunes to rip directly to this area if you wanted.

The display is really nice. Very grey - not green. The backlight is bright enough to be seen in daylight.

BTW - I also confirmed the existence of the breakout game.

The more I play with it, the more impressed I am.

10-27-2001 06:16 AM

mensachicken
Member

Registered: Oct 2000
Location:
Posts: 443

quote:
Originally posted by bradhaak
I got to spend another hour or so with an iPod today and I can tell you categorically as a Nomad owner that there is no comparison in sound quality. The iPod sound is much better. The UI is much better. The power consumption is much better.

bradhaak,

thanks for answering this query. though i'm much more trusting of an opinion that comes from someone who's tried it, i'm still curious as to whether the mp3s that you listened to (compared from nomad to ipod) were transferred from the same source? (ie, were they the same files?) for some reason, i suspect they were not.

regardless, if the ipod does have superior sound quality, i stand corrected for implying that it and the nomad were probably on par.

mc

10-27-2001 07:02 AM

bradhaak
Member

Registered: Oct 2000
Location:
Posts: 380

You are correct that the files weren't from the same source. The iPod files were ripped by iTunes and the Nomad files were ripped in Real Jukebox Plus (Xing codec).

However, both sets of files are at 160 Kbps stereo. This is high enough quality that my extremely average ear for music shouldn't hear much difference.

10-27-2001 08:20 AM

dick-richardson
Member

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 2531

quote:
Originally posted by mensachicken
quite the comedian. (don't quit your day job.)

Don't plan on it. Now try reading for comprehension. Perhaps there was a point to the joke?

quote:
so please, tell me where they're getting us$400 for a 5gb drive.

James posted the link earlier in this thread.

quote:
please, spare me the soapboxing. jolly for you that you're a music major. i wasn't attempting to get into a "music is important to me", "oh yeah, it's more important to me!" debate. i merely posted that information to make it clear that, contrary to what homer was suggesting regarding "my budget", i am in apple's target market.

A slight defensive, aren't we? I was pointing out that that an mp3 player had to meet more important criteria than storage for people who care how their music sounds rather than how much they can put on it. IOW, Apple's target market isn't entirely based on budget.

quote:
i was attempting to point out the lack of logic in implying that simply because someone can afford $600 for a 5gb mp3 player (i can), doesn't mean they will do so (i won't). the product still has to be worth the cash. same as anything else.

You've made it abundantly clear that you're rich enough to buy one but aren't going to. We get it. No one implied you were on food stamps (nothing untoward intended for those who are - I've been there).

quote:
and the above quote shows your inability to read. i never said it was "all about" storage space. i said it was the main factor in purchasing an mp3 player. that doesn't mean there aren't other factors. (price, sound quality, size, transfer speed, durability, ease of use, and, to some people, appearance.)

The main factor for who? You? That's ducky. Sound quality is my main factor. Quiet a few people will decide based on size. More will probably decide on price. Some will decide based on computer integration.

quote:
so, in your opinion, the ipod will have better sound quality than, say, the nomad?

I haven't heard the iPod in person yet. I can let you know when I do.

quote:
i never said apple went wrong in sound quality, storage space, portability, battery life, or any of the things you mention. where'd you learn how to read? i said one thing, that the damn unit is TOO EXPENSIVE for what you're getting.

Too expensive for you (not meaning that you can't afford it - just that you don't place its value at its asking price). Someone with your wealth who values, oh...say...size vs. storage capacity vs. battery life vs. integration with their current mac vs.ease of use might think they're getting a hell of a deal for the only mp3 player that meets their needs.

Is it expensive? Sure. Will a lot of people buy something else because of that? No doubt. But who the hell would spend $75000 on a car that doesn't get you there any faster than a $750 car (speed limits aren't relative, contrary to popular belief)? Enough to keep Mercedes/BMW/etc. in business.

quote:
believe it or not, i didn't come here to post YOUR opinion. i came to post mine. believe it or not, they're different! let's agree to disagree before we regress to namecalling in the schoolyard, shall we?

I shan't regress. I understand your opinion. I find it to be too narrow for my tastes.

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Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

10-27-2001 08:46 AM

Potus
Member

Registered: Feb 2001
Location:
Posts: 138

quote:
Originally posted by mensachicken

i merely posted that information to make it clear that, contrary to what homer was suggesting regarding "my budget", i am in apple's target market.

i was attempting to point out the lack of logic in implying that simply because someone can afford $600 for a 5gb mp3 player (i can),

mc

Mazel tov.

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10-27-2001 12:18 PM

homer
Member

Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1683

quote:
that is the problem with arguing hypotheticals--no one is right and no one is wrong. we'll have to wait and see, won't we?

But it's so much more fun to argue about it in the interim.

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10-27-2001 03:10 PM

Yorick
Member

Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Out of my skull, back in five minutes
Posts: 1435

quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson
It's all about sound quality

Then why are you messing about with MP3's? Higher quality can be had but you sacrifice compression.

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10-27-2001 04:51 PM

Yorick
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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Out of my skull, back in five minutes
Posts: 1435

Originally posted by bradhaak
The iPod carries a full version of the latest iTunes software. If you plug into a computer with an older version, it updates the computer. If the computer has a newer version, the iPod picks it up for updating other computers. On the flip side, iTunes also contains the iPod firmware, so that it will be updated automatically if there is a newer version on the computer. This is all handled by the standard Apple software update mechanism.

Considering the snafu of Apple's most recent firmware update, automatic update is a BAD thing.
And for that matter I have to be on the newest version of OS 9 to even use it, according to the specs I've seen. Can you confirm or deny?

The display is really nice. Very grey - not green. The backlight is bright enough to be seen in daylight.
This is a stupid question, but why do you need the backlight in daylight?

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10-27-2001 04:58 PM

dick-richardson
Member

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 2531

quote:
Originally posted by Yorick
Then why are you messing about with MP3's? Higher quality can be had but you sacrifice compression.

2 reasons. Though I sacrifice compression for sound quality, I still can play them with any number of mp3 players. Have you ever seen an AIFF player? That's a format that is, at best, a secondary feature to an mp3 player.

And even though the files aren't the smallest, they are still smaller than a comparable .wav file.

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Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

10-27-2001 05:05 PM

mensachicken
Member

Registered: Oct 2000
Location:
Posts: 443

quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson

Don't plan on it. Now try reading for comprehension. Perhaps there was a point to the joke?

perhaps if the joke weren't rife with condescension, i would not have taken offense to it.

mc

10-27-2001 05:13 PM

homer
Member

Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1683

quote:
This is a stupid question, but why do you need the backlight in daylight?

You don't. The point was that it is bright enough to actually see it in daylight. In otherwords, it's really bright.

As for sound quality, there are higher-fidelity formats that actually compress BETTER than MP3...Ogg Vorbis for one...

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10-27-2001 05:56 PM

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