Registered: Dec 1999
Location: "Children are a gift from God, they are a reward"
Posts: 1049

Open question to all mods.

Why are threads being closed because one or two people are posting idiotic posts? I've noticed a pattern of this and want to know why conversations can flow nicely for a while, and then be shut down because of stupid responses from several repeat offenders?

A mod just shut down a post (as an example) right when I was posting a response to a question- I guess I don't blame him because several posts got way off subject, into the realm of stupidly ludicrous, but why shut down the whole thread if there is any other solution?

It doesn't seem to be working as a deterrent. Look at how many closed threads have happened around here recently. I can't remember a time (even during the BW vs. the world) where so many threads have gotten shut down. I'm sure the perps will just slide to another thread, or open a new one, and proceed anew.

Is this just the price of forums like this?
(This is a real question. Not an attempt to open a discourse on free speech. If you want to talk about that, please do me the common courtesy of opening your own thread.)

Michael Walters

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"I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."

Registered: Jan 2001
Location:
Posts: 278

Michal, I agree and was going to write something along these lines but you beat me to it. Thank you for having the courage to ask this and I await the mod's answer.

--David

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 1883

I agree we do have a problem.
Unfortunately the good people suffer from some people that tread this forum as a playground.
I closed a couple of threads as a signal that this kind of behavior is not tolerated.
Also I have warned a couple of people who were out of line.

Hopefully they will pick up their last chance before we have to use stronger action.

I hate to limit freedom of speech, but I'm afraid some people do not appreciate this privilege enough....

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<IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?

Registered: Dec 1999
Location: "Children are a gift from God, they are a reward"
Posts: 1049

Thanks for the prompt reply. Any other mods out there with thoughts on the subject? I don't want VC to become a humourless (look! I'm European!-or maybe Canadian!) (that relates to the 'flower post' and is about spelling) place where people can't joke, but I love stretching conversations out over days. I hate coming back to a post and finding it locked down because of the same people. I also don't really want to see them 'booted' as I don't feel they're irredeemable.
Thorny issues. You mods have it tough. You get no respect, nobody listens to you unless you give away free stuff, and you have to wear those funny hats.
Thanks
Michael

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"I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."

Registered: Aug 2000
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 1062

quote:

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Originally posted by BobbyMike
I hate coming back to a post and finding it locked down because of the same people.

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I was vaguely relieved to find the Porn Module thread closed down, as I had already blabbed on and given WAY too much information!

P.S. Bobby-Mike: I am going to propose a new VisorCentral rule that requires a vote before anyone can change their avatars...where is that precious little boy's picture?? It made me laugh b/c of his expression. (I'm just kidding, of course, about the rule!)

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Texan in Calgary for a while
Posts: 1361

We have only had to delete/ban 1 or 2 people here, because most readers respect each other and don't resort to flame wars (well, most of the time ). I like a fun thread as much as the next guy, but personal attacks will not be tolerated. That is the quickest way to get kicked off the forums.

I just deleted an entire thread because someone was describing people as animal-looking. If that happens again, the poster's account will be deleted.

__________________
James Hromadka
Old Friend

Registered: Dec 1999
Location: "Children are a gift from God, they are a reward"
Posts: 1049

Thanks. Remember the quality of a peoples open discourse is the defining rule of a civilization, not the quality of their weapons.

K.Cannon wrote:
"P.S. Bobby-Mike: I am going to propose a new VisorCentral rule that requires a vote before anyone can change their avatars...where is that precious little boy's picture?? It made me laugh b/c of his expression. (I'm just kidding, of course, about the rule!)"

Although I am not open to intimidation, gifts of chocolate will suffice. (actually I'm looking for a good photo of all three of my boys, one which 'gets' all three of them as well as that one got Martin)

"It made me laugh b/c of his expression. "
He's like that 24/7!!!

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"I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Metro Station, Hollywood and Highland
Posts: 1018

VC karma

Not that Slashdot is model for civil discourse (understatement of the year), but adding a Slashdot-esque karma system where individual posts could be rated by other members could give people incentive to be constructive, and trolls could be so identified. And maybe VC could reward the member with the most karma at the end of the month with goodies like the MemPlug, or a gift of chocolate

Never hurts to ask . . .

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Metro Station, Hollywood and Highland
Posts: 1018

quote:

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Originally posted by BobbyMike
I hate coming back to a post and finding it locked down because of the same people.

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Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Prison
Posts: 421

Well

Some of the threads I have been responsible for alerting the mods.

As a former moderator myself, (yes, can you imagine that? and I wasn't asked to leave, either!!!) ,I always deleted stupid posts INSTEAD of locking down threads. I'm not sure why that's such a problem here. Does anyone remember Mr. Staff? Is an image of a stick of wood too much? Does comparing Donna Dubinsky to the Aimster Pig Encoder logo REALLY justify a consequence WORSE than insulting another V.C. member on a far greater degree? I actually think the problem has to do more with the fact my handle name is "bblue" than anything else. I can bet if I didn't post this here now, I could sign up on another handle, post a topic with similar absurdity, and NOT have it locked down. The only reason I say that is because I've seen a major inconsistency with what passes for a "lockdown."

Was the "Porn Module Idea" thread REALLY worth locking down more impuslively than the "What Visor do you Have?" thread? A topic shift vs. an all out flame war? With the exception of the "impressions" thread (which was a bit biting, even for me!) , I have NEVER insulted any V.C. member to any extent that would cause verbal harm. Yet my account "supposedly" is on the verge of destruction! (I say "supposedly" because it's not only absurd, it's been empty in the past!) Yeah, my "style" can set people off, but uh... I think flaming should get a little higher notch on our Mod's priority list.

I have considered posting continuations of threads that got locked down that REALLY should not have been. As long as it is an intelligent conversation (porn module idea!) , and not out of control, WHO CARES?

Can't they split threads here? (I.e. taking irrelevant /yet/ intelligent posts and moving them into their own thread! No pun intended!) You would think that a site as developed as this would have that...

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<b><font size=1 color=teal>"Sorry about the whole thing about losing your life savings, but that Palmpilot is property of Enron, so please give it back"

Last edited by bblue on 06-08-2001 at 02:31 AM

Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Out of my skull, back in five minutes
Posts: 1435

Re: Well

quote:

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Originally posted by bblue
As a former moderator myself

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The light at the end of your tunnel has been disconnected due to non-payment. Please remit funds immediately for restoration of hope.

Last edited by Yorick on 06-08-2001 at 03:18 AM

Registered: Dec 1999
Location: Connecticut USA
Posts: 2682

Does anyone think we close and delete threads for the fun of it? I'm sorry, but there is a certain standard, albeit unwritten, that we have all come to enjoy here. When the line gets crossed, we take action. I have seen many other free-for-all forums that allow just about anything. Commentary is down right rude and the real reason for the discussion is lost in all the flames. VisorCentral has always had more of a homey feeling and I (as a memeber and not a moderator) would like to keep it that way.

Yes, many times it is extremely difficult to tell the difference between veiled attemps at humor and all-out flaming.

Yes, there are members who seem to thrive by needling others.

Yes, there are many good threads that go bad (and some even rebound).

The question is where to draw the line. Outright personal attacks cannot and will not be tolerated. However, determining when one has occured is not an exact science... most times it's a judgement call. I think the entire moderating staff has done exceptionally well.

What bothers me the most lately is that we have a topic either turn to flames or drift so far off course that nobody knows what's going on. The thread gets closed or deleted and then another is started with more of the same. That one goes on for a while, gets closed, etc, etc, etc.

I can't speak for the others but I'll let you all in on a few of my feelings here. First, if anyone ever has a problem with me as a moderator, by all means contact marcus and complain. I'm sure if he gets enough he'll ask me to give up the job.

Second, I would rather come in here and read threads about the Visor and all that entails without the fluff. Yes, we have an Off Topic forum, but that doesn't mean it's anything goes. Keep in mind that there are numerous members under the age of 18 here. I'd like to think the adults here can set an example. There's a few posts I wouldn't want my kids to read...

Lastly, I really get upset with some of the comments directed at the moderating staff lately. We're human and we make mistakes. We also could probably be a little more fair in the application of our duties (as has been indicated to me in emails and private messages). The bottom line is we do a good job... no, to be fair to the others, we do a great job. Maybe not everyone agrees with that, but I feel the majority of you do.

Marcus, and everyone else at Peracto, have given us all a first class site. The staff, starting with James, has always been top shelf. And the membership as a whole is the best. As I said earlier, it's a nice homey place to hang out. My job (volunteer, mind you) requires me to keep it this way, and I take that responsibility very serious.

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God bless America, my home sweet home...

Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Prison
Posts: 421

Mirgle!!!

quote:

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Originally posted by Yorick

But not here, correct?

No, but I would assume the experience can be carried on.

The way you identified it seemed insulting. If I were a member of the hard-working VC staff I'd feel insulted to have my intelligence compared to that of a piece of wood.

It never compared its intelligence to other VC staff members. Only to other "staffs!" (I got so many people on that joke!)

How about if someone starts comparing your mother to the Aimster Pig logo? There are limits to good and bad taste.

THAT IS MY MOTHER ON THE AIMSTER PIG LOGO! Why, is Donna your mother? (just kidding!)

a one-off poor-taste joke about Ms. Dubinsky is one thing. After reading your and bkbk's posts to the Porn Module thread following my leaving for the night, I would have liked to reprimand both of you somehow as well. I don't agree with the lockdown but I see it as justifiable.

bkbk is a good man by all means.

I direct you to the thread you started where you presented your impressions of other users.

That is where I learned that humor has no relevance to Visors.

well, I think that should be discussed privately with or by the moderator(s) to identify the reasons for the lockdown.

It has been. They choose not to respond. This is the only way to get it known.

I'd like that. I've been responsible for unintentional redirection of a thread myself.

You've also been very helpful in the past, too.
Message boards are a community; each board develops its own community. In general this one is very intelligent and has helpful members, which led me to join after lurking for a while. Most boards I visit I only stay around long enough to get the info I need and then I disappear. VC has, so far, ben fun and edifying.

I have nothing against you personally, bblue, but I find your behavior inconsistant and erratic, which makes me wonder a bit. You seem to be very intelligent (barring spelling/typographical errors) yet you also don't always seem to think before you write.


That's nothing new. The spelling errors come from typing too quickly because of a Time Crunch, and OmniWeb's lack of character recognition speed. I also think as I write. My posts do NOT mask the mood I am in when I post. Before you go on saying that I need to stop doing that, I will inform you that I DO re-read all of my posts BEFORE I hit the "submit" button to edit/take out anything I said that I did not want to say. But I always make sure that NOBODY is directly offended. If they are (the Impressions post) , I remove the offensive blurb without haste. I really do NOT need the mods locking it up and preserving it forever.

I have a sense of humor. It's nothing new to V.C. , even to my extremes. I think the only difference, is mine is far more present. This somewhat leads to the fact that a post with my name next to it is about 400% more likely to get locked down (or cause a lock down) than another one. Lets be honest. If I was to post that "Bjork is a freak!" (sorry foo-fighter, it came to my mind first) post, it would have been locked down immediately. Of course, I don't know who Bjork is, but the point still stands.

I'm not saying that EVERY ONE of my posts is wholesome good reading made from fresh grains grown daily and smothered in warm butter with some toast and an orange juice ... mmmmmmm.... orange juice.

Wait... where was I?

Oh yes, but for gawd's sake, there are posts out there FAR more damaging than mine. FAR more immature, and FAR less appropriate. Get your priorities straight and gimme my orange juice!
[/B]

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__________________
<b><font size=1 color=teal>"Sorry about the whole thing about losing your life savings, but that Palmpilot is property of Enron, so please give it back"

Registered: May 2000
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 1429

quote:

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Originally posted by MarkEagle
VisorCentral has always had more of a homey feeling and I (as a member and not a moderator) would like to keep it that way.

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I'm going to try not to just make a ugly thing quoting your post, but I would like to make sure that this is seconded. and I will repeat it. VisorCentral is a place for people to come discuss Visors. For people to discuss rumors. For people to have fun, learning, and for the better enjoyment of your $250+ "toy". Visorcentral shouldn't be the place for too much off topic %$^$. Topics like What Visor do you have, should be kept just to what Visor you have. Topics and discussions should be held so that they are appropriate for any 13 year old. People shouldn't be posting here just to get posts. People shouldn't be posting here to make fun of people. People should be posting for non Visor posts(mainly)

quote:

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First, if anyone ever has a problem with me as a moderator, by all means contact marcus and complain.

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Being a moderator for this size of a forum starts to become a very hard job. With 30 some new topics a day, and at least 500 posts, there is a lot to look at. I think that Mark has done an excellent job, and that know one here should be complaining.

quote:

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Keep in mind that there are numerous members under the age of 18 here. I'd like to think the adults here can set an example.

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come on.. let the kids set the example.. oh wait. .that can be good and/or bad.. DON'T LET AGE DISCRIMINATION GET YOU!

Marcus DOES do a good job, and everyone here puts a good amount of time into their work. I know for a fact myself, that when I write an article, I'll spend upwards of 4 hours writing it and editing it. All volunteer. In my most recent review that soon will be published I went through 4 rewrites to make it good, and I still don't like it. Marcus spends an enormous time writing backend code, James, Alan, Scott they all work as hard as I do on reviews. And Mark, Hoser, Toolkit, they are our moderator's. Moderating is an important part of a boards. We don't want to have so much junk that we have to impliment a scoring system ala slashdot, and I like it that we don't evan utilize the "report this post to a moderator" feature. It shows that VC trusts us, the users.

I hope that we can keep up that same trust

Spellchecked for once!

__________________
-miradu

Last edited by miradu on 06-08-2001 at 04:14 AM

Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Out of my skull, back in five minutes
Posts: 1435

what? we haven't been locked down? oh, good.

quote:

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Originally posted by MarkEagle
... I would rather come in here and read threads about the Visor and all that entails without the fluff. Yes, we have an Off Topic forum, but that doesn't mean it's anything goes.

---

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The light at the end of your tunnel has been disconnected due to non-payment. Please remit funds immediately for restoration of hope.

Registered: Dec 1999
Location: "Children are a gift from God, they are a reward"
Posts: 1049

Wow! Great response to my thread. I started this thread to get some clear ideas on what could be done, not to criticize the Mods. They have done nothing wrong in my eyes.

I think what seems to be happening here at VC is similiar to what's happening in our society right now. That is, there is a vocal group of citizens talking about personal freedom, but ignoring personal responsibility. Here it shows in how people hijack threads to post nonsense.

It's one thing to see a thread evolve into a deeper discussion, but to see it disintergrate into name-calling and what my mom used to call "potty mouth humor", is another. If I want exposure to that kind of crap, I can watch cable or listen to a shock jock on FM radio. I come here, as I thought most people do, to discuss Visors and related things- also to converse with intelligent people about non Visor related things. Having a sense of humor, to me, is the ability to see humor all around me. It doesn't involve calling other people names, mocking them, or comparing them to farm animals. If that's humor- it's the lowest form of it (least common denominator) and it sucks (just being honest), because it uses the degradation of another for fun. That's like giving someone a wedgie and then saying, "Lighten up, don't you have sense of humor?".

I'm of the opinion that anybody can overcome past stupidity and become a fully productive member of a group. It involves them wanting to fit in though, and too many people think its their job to run around being the "odd man out" and do what ever they can to "loosen up" the people around them they see as "sticks in the mud".

Unless you're sociopathic, you know when you've crossed the line. Don't try to justify it. Apologize and move on. And don't do it again. We may not know where you live, but your mom does.

Thanks again, Mods and VC Staff, for a great job!
Michael

(What did Mark Twain say about his dad? Something like "When I was young I thought my father was dumb, amazingly as I got older, he got smarter?"

__________________
"I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Them Twin Cities
Posts: 1758

quote:

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Originally posted by BobbyMike
(What did Mark Twain say about his dad? Something like "When I was young I thought my father was dumb, amazingly as I got older, he got smarter?"

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Don't like somebody? Click "Profile" on a post and then click "Ignore "so and so's" posts". Voila!

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 3034

Re: Well

quote:

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Originally posted by bblue
[...] Does anyone remember Mr. Staff? Is an image of a stick of wood too much? Does comparing Donna Dubinsky to the Aimster Pig Encoder logo REALLY justify a consequence WORSE than insulting another V.C. member on a far greater degree?

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 3034

Re: Mirgle!!!

quote:

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Originally posted by bblue
I have a sense of humor.

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Last edited by Toby on 06-08-2001 at 03:45 PM

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 3034

quote:

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Originally posted by miradu2000
[...] DON'T LET AGE DISCRIMINATION GET YOU! [...]

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