Registered: Jun 2000
Location:
Posts: 594

quote:

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Originally posted by bkbk
I played w/the Edge at a Staples in NYC the other day (Thurs., I think).
Screen seemed just like the others (not grayer / lighter, as some reports have had it) -- though I didn't really look for this. As I left the store, though, it flashed on me that I'd've noticed if it was.

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__________________
"Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds." -- Albert Einstein

Last edited by bkbk on 03-31-2001 at 12:07 PM

Registered: Jul 2000
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Posts: 3034

quote:

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Originally posted by bkbk
Should there be a cap on personal wealth?;

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Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 2531

asinine post on my part -- deleted

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Registered: Jun 2000
Location:
Posts: 594

Toby,
I don't want to write a ton here, but please keep your mind open until you see a lot more data (not nec. filled in just by me) on these issues.
(I recently posted 1/2 of a huge, detailed, well-thought-out [or so I thought] post, and was not savvy enough to keep doing Ctrl-A, Ctrl-C as I went along, and badly got burned. Not sure I'll do that anymore.)
Please take no offense (though I prob. would have) if I can prob. say w/rel. cert. that you're younger than I.
THE QUESTION OF AGE
It's not moot, sad to say -- again, in my youth, I'd've prob. disag. vehemently. (And to my own chagrin, owing to my vast studies in many disciplines, I'd've prob. won the arg. -- tho no doubt lost the war.)
There really is some wisdom to the facts:
1) You CAN'T be U.S. Pres. if you're <35;
2) Mark Twain's famous quote: "When I was a kid of __ [I forget age he states; 15 or 18?] I thought my dad was a complete buffoon; by the time I was 21, I was surprised to see how much wisdom he'd acquired in just those few years!";
3) Aristotle stated you're not "A Man In Full" (w/apolgies to Tom Wolfe, his newest novel w/that title, and the fact that I have neither read it, nor really know its subject matter) until you reach 40;
4) Famous quote along these lines: "If you're a republican before [some age over 21, I believe -- but maybe 35 or 40], you have no heart; if not after this age, no head."

None of these are "conclusive proof," of course. But one must reflect on "perpetually mounting anecdotal evidence" such as this.

I used to think people could be trusted, POWER was NOT a lust, and "everything would work out right in the end." Just watch 20/20, Nightline, PrimeTime, DateLine and even Inside Edition and Hard Copy, etc. long enough (and live another decade or two), and you'll see the world is a far, far, far, far, far, far, far cry from the Wizard of Oz. I haven't seen the new film "Traffic," but it's probably much closer to reality, sadly.

Even I, whom I consider quite perspicacious, was quite naive about this for many years, wanting to "believe there was more good than evil in people" ... maybe, but only some people. But now I work hard (as I should have my whole life, if I wasn't blinded) to MAKE SURE WE LIMIT POWER. "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts, absolutely," is still true, sadly. Even a "benevolent tyrant" like Bill Gates (if you want to look at it that way) felt free to CRUSH OTHERS, SO HE MIGHT LIVE, etc.

I'm sure Gary Larson is one of the kindest, most artistic, altruistic, etc. persons who ever lived. It's sad that he "shouldn't be able to have $100,000,000" or whatever, just so we can ensure NO EVIL PEOPLE DO, EITHER. Ultimately, I hope, we'll be able to scientifically pinpoint who is good and who is evil, and by how much, then these restrictions can perhaps be lifted -- or at least modified.

(A good ex. is Dean Kamen, whose "Ginger/IT" invention I was just reading about on HOWITWORKS.COM. Merely by one of his prev. inventions [the "vertical wheelchair," or whatever its "real name" is] I believe we should vote his "cap lifted" for the rest of his life -- I think it's such an astounding gift to humanity. [And, BTW, if we DO life in a truly compassionate world / nation, I think EVERYONE IN A WHEELCHAIR SHOULD GET ONE ***TODAY*** -- and we worry about the cost (to the taxpayer and/or w/the infirmed person's econ. contributions) LATER.] Obviously, the astounding details involved in "eval. all of human life" must be done by supercomputers, A.I., etc., since it prob. involves billions - octillions of "calcs" to even "arrive at a good sort order," etc.)

It's shocking & horrifying for people of goodwill to have these concepts of SCIENTIFIC TESTS of "real-life matters" crest their consciousness, I know -- I felt that shock way back when, too. [LOOK UP THE MEANING OF WELTSCHMERZ (it's in the dic.) ... and ask yourself WHY IT WAS COINED.] But many of the great minds of this world agree w/me that these SCIENTIFIC TESTS must be applied -- at the very least so good people will be LEFT ALONE, and not constantly accosted by the psychos.

M.Scott Peck, M.D.'s "People of the Lie: The Hope for Healing Human Evil" (a ref. I've made in other posts) is an indispensable read, and will lead you to the other great minds that have also realized the absolute truth that there is in fact human evil, and something must be done about it. No matter how much "it breaks our hearts to acknowledge."

__________________
"Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds." -- Albert Einstein

Last edited by bkbk on 03-31-2001 at 11:51 AM

Registered: Jun 2000
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Posts: 594

BTW it's IMPORTANT that all understand I am NOT saying you must be 40 "before you're a man" -- but one in *full* -- whatever that means. (I mean: seasoned, judicious reasoning, based on a seasoned, judicious understanding of THE VAST MOSAIC OF LIFE. I believe Aristotle meant the same, and prob. Tom Wolfe -- I'll see if I can garner that quickly & get back to you.)
As the "Mars & Venus" books (NOT the TV show, please, which is merely a hideous bastardization to make money, obviously, which is why Dr. Gray almost never appears on it, I'm sure) and Evolutionary Biology and Evolutionary Psychology have FINALLY shown the human race:
You're a MAN at birth (or woman, in the distaff case).
You DON'T need to "PROVE" it in ANY way.
You DON'T need some "ritual" to "certify" it, etc.
ANCIENT cultures did (because they had so little data).
YOU don't need to lift a finger TODAY.
In our brave new world, it's a GIVEN.
We have the EVIDENCE.

__________________
"Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds." -- Albert Einstein

Registered: Jun 2000
Location:
Posts: 594

Last, quick note (for now), I swear:
On power:
In the modern world, this is mostly via money.
But, say it was still "arms" -- would we endorse an UNLIMITED build-up?
What if A.Hitler or S.Hussein had a special laser ("star-wars" type, in orbit) that could decimate other countries? Would he "not use this unfair advantage"? Doubtful.
In "T1" and "T2" wasn't the Terminator so powerful he didn't even need to worry about anyone in his way?
On a slightly diff. point:
Should prisoners be allowed to lift weights just so they can dominate & crush others (perhaps innocent -- incl. guards) in their environs? Isn't it wiser to deny them this "arms build-up"? (Provided they are GUARANTEED safety from the assaults of others, which they now, under the thoroughly corrupt prison & court systems, are not.)
(Note, BTW, this is mostly a male concern, since women are by and large not "given the dilemma" of having to conduct hand-to-hand combat on their own -- but instead must abnegate the consideration, since males are born more physically powerful, by and large.)

I would say every kind of power ("the ability to act" in the dic., I believe) should be guarded against too masssive a build-up.

__________________
"Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds." -- Albert Einstein

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 3034

quote:

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Originally posted by bkbk
I don't want to write a ton here, but please keep your mind open until you see a lot more data (not nec. filled in just by me) on these issues.

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My mind is open. What data do you think would change it? Which positions exactly do you think that I need to see more data on? Please be a bit more clear if you're going to start assuming ignorance on my part.

quote:

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(I recently posted 1/2 of a huge, detailed, well-thought-out [or so I thought] post, and was not savvy enough to keep doing Ctrl-A, Ctrl-C as I went along, and badly got burned. Not sure I'll do that anymore.)

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Perhaps it has more to do with a rambling stream-of-consciousness style than not hitting "Ctrl-A, Ctrl-C" (not exactly sure what that's supposed to mean). If one's internal thought structures are clear and well-structured, stream-of-consciousness can get a point across. If not, communication suffers unbearably.

quote:

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Please take no offense (though I prob. would have) if I can prob. say w/rel. cert. that you're younger than I.

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No, I take no offense, but even if I am younger than you (providing your age would have made it simple to determine), I fail to see what difference it makes. Basing one's argument on age is weak and fallacious.

quote:

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THE QUESTION OF AGE
It's not moot, sad to say -- again, in my youth, I'd've prob. disag. vehemently. (And to my own chagrin, owing to my vast studies in many disciplines, I'd've prob. won the arg. -- tho no doubt lost the war.)

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You're really rambling incoherently here. None of this has anything to do with what I said (unless you're trying to refute by circumvention).

quote:

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There really is some wisdom to the facts:
1) You CAN'T be U.S. Pres. if you're <35;

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But you can have almost as much (if not more with a sufficient number of like-minded individuals) power at 25. This also ignores the fact that originally there was going to be a minimum property wealth provision as well ($100,000 at that time, imagine it indexed for today) too, so does that mean if you own less property than I, your statements are less meaningful? Besides, what's all this have to do with anything?

quote:

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2) Mark Twain's famous quote: "When I was a kid of __ [I forget age he states; 15 or 18?] I thought my dad was a complete buffoon; by the time I was 21, I was surprised to see how much wisdom he'd acquired in just those few years!";

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It's a nice quote and all, but non sequitur to anything at hand.

quote:

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3) Aristotle stated you're not "A Man In Full" (w/apolgies to Tom Wolfe, his newest novel w/that title, and the fact that I have neither read it, nor really know its subject matter) until you reach 40;

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Appeal to authority (argumentum ad vericundiam)...dismissed.

quote:

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4) Famous quote along these lines: "If you're a republican before [some age over 21, I believe -- but maybe 35 or 40], you have no heart; if not after this age, no head."

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Actually, the quote is more like, if you're under 30 and not a liberal, you have no heart; if you're over 30 and not a conservative, you have no brain. Like most quotes along those lines, it's kinda pithy, but really not much to base one's life philosophy upon.

quote:

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None of these are "conclusive proof," of course.

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They're not only not concslusive proof. They're not proof of anything. They're just sayings.

quote:

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But one must reflect on "perpetually mounting anecdotal evidence" such as this.

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This could be summed up with "If you say something loud enough and long enough, eventually people will believe it to be true." It's quite a false sentiment.

quote:

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I used to think people could be trusted, POWER was NOT a lust, and "everything would work out right in the end." Just watch 20/20, Nightline, PrimeTime, DateLine and even Inside Edition and Hard Copy, etc. long enough (and live another decade or two), and you'll see the world is a far, far, far, far, far, far, far cry from the Wizard of Oz. I haven't seen the new film "Traffic," but it's probably much closer to reality, sadly.

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Perhaps if you came back to reality for a minute, you'd see that this seems to bear not even a smidgen of relationship to anything I said. It makes a nice little straw man, maybe, but those aren't worth much either. You appear to be ASSUming an awful lot of things here that bear no relation to reality or anything I said.

quote:

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Even I, whom I consider quite perspicacious,

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Perhaps you may consider it impressive to be sesquipedalian, but I do not. The only reason one should have for using a $.50 word is when it clearly expresses a meaning not otherwise available in a simpler, more widely understood word. In this case, I think "hot-****" though a tad vulgar, would clearly get the meaning across.

quote:

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was quite naive about this for many years, wanting to "believe there was more good than evil in people" ... maybe, but only some people. But now I work hard (as I should have my whole life, if I wasn't blinded) to MAKE SURE WE LIMIT POWER. "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts, absolutely," is still true, sadly. Even a "benevolent tyrant" like Bill Gates (if you want to look at it that way) felt free to CRUSH OTHERS, SO HE MIGHT LIVE, etc.

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Not quite sure where you're getting such naivete on my part, but it most certainly is misattributed. History has shown over and over that tyrants eventually get their comeuppance. This still really has nothing to do with anything I said.

quote:

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I'm sure Gary Larson is one of the kindest, most artistic, altruistic, etc. persons who ever lived.

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I really don't care if he's the Devil Incarnate. He still should have the right to a degree of control over his creative endeavors.

quote:

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It's sad that he "shouldn't be able to have $100,000,000" or whatever, just so we can ensure NO EVIL PEOPLE DO, EITHER.

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huh? So that's what this whole rambling mess has been about? Look, I couldn't care less if Gary Larson makes $10 or $10,000,000,000. The point ulimately is that his creations should be his to distribute _alone_ (unless he delegates someone else to the task). If there are limits on personal property rights, then there truly _are_ no personal property rights (just the illusion thereof).

quote:

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Ultimately, I hope, we'll be able to scientifically pinpoint who is good and who is evil, and by how much, then these restrictions can perhaps be lifted -- or at least modified.

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I can see that this thread deserves to be Godwined.

quote:

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(A good ex. is Dean Kamen, whose "Ginger/IT" invention I was just reading about on HOWITWORKS.COM. Merely by one of his prev. inventions [the "vertical wheelchair," or whatever its "real name" is] I believe we should vote his "cap lifted" for the rest of his life -- I think it's such an astounding gift to humanity. [And, BTW, if we DO life in a truly compassionate world / nation, I think EVERYONE IN A WHEELCHAIR SHOULD GET ONE ***TODAY*** -- and we worry about the cost (to the taxpayer and/or w/the infirmed person's econ. contributions) LATER.] Obviously, the astounding details involved in "eval. all of human life" must be done by supercomputers, A.I., etc., since it prob. involves billions - octillions of "calcs" to even "arrive at a good sort order," etc.)

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Well, normally, I hesitate to try and play arm-chair psychologist in such a limited-information medium, but perhaps you should seek some therapy. To assume that you have any sort of right to dictate what others should or shouldn't be able to do on this micromanaged level has a very distinct name...fascism. You're in good company with other megalomaniacal leaders from the past. What's your real name, so I know not to ever vote for you should you run for elective office?

quote:

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It's shocking & horrifying for people of goodwill to have these concepts of SCIENTIFIC TESTS of "real-life matters" crest their consciousness, I know -- I felt that shock way back when, too.

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It's not shocking at all. There have been plenty of other lunatics who thought it was needed as well.

quote:

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[LOOK UP THE MEANING OF WELTSCHMERZ (it's in the dic.) ... and ask yourself WHY IT WAS COINED.]

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Probably for the same reason as schadenfreude, because it described a state that some people possess. The world is not a perfect place, and will never be so.

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But many of the great minds of this world

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More argumentum ad vericundiam which is meaningless without the actual statements and context of the great minds which you claim support you.

quote:

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agree w/me that these SCIENTIFIC TESTS must be applied -- at the very least so good people will be LEFT ALONE, and not constantly accosted by the psychos.

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I'd be willing to bet, though, that not a single pair of these "great minds" could agree on a set of classifications which would determine what is a psycho from a non-psycho.

quote:

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M.Scott Peck, M.D.'s "People of the Lie: The Hope for Healing Human Evil" (a ref. I've made in other posts) is an indispensable read, and will lead you to the other great minds that have also realized the absolute truth that there is in fact human evil, and something must be done about it. No matter how much "it breaks our hearts to acknowledge."

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"Reading, after a certain age, diverts the mind too much from its creative pursuits. Any man who reads too much and uses his own brain too little falls into lazy habits of thinking." - Einstein

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 3034

quote:

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Originally posted by bkbk
What if A.Hitler

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Registered: Jun 2000
Location:
Posts: 594

T:
I'm heartened you seem to have worked on your educ., and I trust you will gain the greater wisdom you are now missing w/age. Remember to focus on your abilites of concentration and extrapolation.

I believe Mencken's recently been exposed as a racist, FYI. And a single source quote such as this doesn't carry a lot of weight, even if it contains some grain of truth. He's fighting against the many sources I provided, and others I could. One other that comes to mind off the top of my head (as all of these writings in these postings are) is how Adam Corolla, on radio's "LoveLine," always asks the age of the caller -- and explains why from time to time; tune it in.

Is the Einstein quote an actual one from the man? He, too, is fighting against many sources. He is, though, the man. (Strange after all this time my being familiar w/so many A.E. quotes -- but not this one.)
It begs a number of questions, from A.E. whose great work ended early in his life & whose later years seemed to be quite wasted.
It would be interesting to know what "certain age" he was referring to.

__________________
"Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds." -- Albert Einstein

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quote:

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Originally posted by bkbk
I'm heartened you seem to have worked on your educ.,

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Registered: Jun 2000
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Posts: 594

Enough of your infantile prattlings, young one.
You'll grow out of them.

__________________
"Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds." -- Albert Einstein

Registered: Jul 2000
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Posts: 3034

quote:

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Originally posted by bkbk
Enough of your infantile prattlings, young one.
You'll grow out of them.

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Registered: Oct 2000
Location:
Posts: 29

Re: RE

quote:

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Originally posted by kscat
That's right Toby! In fact I was out in the stores again today and guess what, Still no Edge to be seen. Palm at least told us it would be a month before they would be available. Beleive it or not, everyone doesn't just order right off the web. I would rather see and feel before I buy.
But hey, I'm not upset. Instead of wasting my money on an Edge which I would have done, I'll be getting a color m505. At least I know when to expect the 505, who knows how long it will take handspring to deal with their shipping and supply issues.

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"At least I know when to expect the 505"

still think so ???? ...
http://cnet.com/news/0-1006-200-5567210.html

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 2531

I'm well impressed, Toby!

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 3034

Re: RE

quote:

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Originally posted by kscat
Toby has no balls

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...says the person who is busy deleting all their posts about how Palm gets their products to the stores on time when Handspring "doesn't". Here's a towel to wipe that egg off your face...

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Redwood City CA
Posts: 472

Re: Re: RE

quote:

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Originally posted by Toby


quote:
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Originally posted by kscat
Toby has no balls

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Registered: Apr 2001
Location:
Posts: 2

quote:
4) Famous quote along these lines: "If you're a republican before [some age over 21, I believe -- but maybe 35 or 40], you have no heart; if not after this age, no head."

Actually, the quote is more like, if you're under 30 and not a liberal, you have no heart; if you're over 30 and not a conservative, you have no brain. Like most quotes along those lines, it's kinda pithy, but really not much to base one's life philosophy upon.


Okay yo....Churchill, Winston Churchill: "If you're not a liberal at twenty, you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty, you have no brain."

This is the same man, mind, who when accused by the British Admiralty of messing with the traditions of the British Navy, declared: "The traditions of the British Navy are three: rum, sodomy, and the lash."

Registered: Mar 2001
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Posts: 9

And this has what to do with the Edge??

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 2531

quote:

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Originally posted by pdafreak

And this has what to do with the Edge??

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__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Last edited by dick-richardson on 04-25-2001 at 05:43 PM