Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 2531

ADHD: real or BS?

At the advice of my wife, college professors, and employers, I took a preliminary eval for ADHD. Early indications are tending toward the affirmative. I've been under the impression that ADHD was so much psychological drivel, fostered by our current cry-baby society ("I have ADHD, your Honor. I shouldn't go to jail because I can't control my impulsivity."). My shrink wants to schedule an appointment to "discuss options." I refuse to be drugged, so I see no point in going. My wife says that discussing options isn't making a decision, which is true, but why waste the time if the "options" are anything but? Anyway, just thought I'd get some opinions here.

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Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Them Twin Cities
Posts: 1758

Re: ADHD: real or BS?

quote:

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Originally posted by dick-richardson
but why waste the time if the "options" are anything but? Anyway, just thought I'd get some opinions here.

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Registered: Oct 2000
Location:
Posts: 443

I highly recommend you check out this book:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...2097555-9902114

written by William Glasser, a shrink who does not believe in drugging under any circumstances. He has treated people with various "mental illnesses" (schizophrenia, bipoloar, add, etc.) and never resorted to prescribing anything.

L.

Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1683

I'm close to 30 and have been just diagnosed with ADDHD about two weeks ago.

My wife (who has some training in this) has been bugging me to get tested for quite awhile. Over the past several years, I have become more aware of my day-to-day behavior and knew I had some sort of problem.

So, I started reading about it and I pretty much saw myself in all of the literature about it.

So I got tested.

Yep. I have it.

Now, Dick, I completely understand your reaction to the drugs, and I am by no means advocating nor disadvocating (is that a word?) that you consider it, but think about this:

When you have a headache, do you take asprin? When you get sick, have you ever taken antibiotics?

The point is that we tend to focus on physical ailments and the medication and treatments of those as 'real' science, but tend to assume mental health ailments and treatments are 'just in our imagination'.

I used to think the same way, but after talking with others with ADD, I'm going to try medication. It changed their lives.

That said, some medications work for some people, while others don't. Also treatment for ADDHD can include all sorts of things including medication, coaching, coping skills, etc.

Are we overmedicating our children? Probably. But that doesn't make ADDHD not a real problem for some people. While I don't feel handicapped or even upset that I have it, I do wish I would have been tested decades ago...it certainly would have helped in college.

In regard to whether or not ADDHD is 'real' or not, well, you need to read about it yourself. From what I've read, psychologists are beginning to see recognizable brain patterns in those with ADDHD. I guess it is still a few decades away from being easily identifiable in a CAT scan, but it is a step in the direction of affirming ADDHD as a real phenomonem.

Also, in all that I've read, ADDHD is not a 'disease' or necessarily a handicap. It is simply a way some of our brains work. There are both advantages and disadvantages to it.

There are also overlapping conditions: ADDHD, Depression, Learning Disabilities, and Obsessive Compulsive behaviour. Some people have a combination of these and are often misdiagnosed. The screening tests I did help to narrow down the specific condition and better establish what, if any, conditions you may have.

Anyways, good luck...let us know what happens!

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Them Twin Cities
Posts: 1758

quote:

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Originally posted by homer
The point is that we tend to focus on physical ailments and the medication and treatments of those as 'real' science, but tend to assume mental health ailments and treatments are 'just in our imagination'.

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Registered: Dec 2000
Location: June 10, 2001 San Clemente Pier , CA
Posts: 211

I can't recall the author's names, but I will post it here when I get home today. One of their books is 'Driven to Distraction', wonderful Q&A format.

The 2 authors are infected with (possessed of?) ADHD, and often mention their trials and successes while going through medical school and still undiagnosed.

They both think of drugs as a low level option with behavior modification at the top of their list.

Since I have come to believe that my entire household has ADD, I have had great interest in their books, which were recommended to my by a friend who is also a psychologist at a school , and a mom with a son with ADHD. You wouldn't believe some of the easy ideas they have for getting life control for yourself as well as tools to help your family cope/understand better. Sometimes, just knowing the full scope of ADHD, can be illuminating/freeing. When in trouble my husband, and sons, now tell me "My ADD made me do it!"

I should point out that my friend, and the 2 authors also say that 'drugs' sometimes have made a world of difference in certain people. My friend says her son would have been in jail or have committed suicide had she/he not found the right combination of 'drugs'.

Please don't give up.

Think of it as controlling nature, instead of being controlled by nature.

The authors actually use an example of a person who needs glasses to see better. Who would deny someone that? or call it a crutch?
Then they also mention teenagers who 'self-medicate', using cocaine etc. 'drugs' which mimic the effects of prescriptions.
This is what originally got me started on my research. I had read a newspaper article saying how a troubled teenage boy suddenly became well behaved, loving, and straight A student. Turned out, he was addicted to cocaine. He said for the 1st time in his life everything seemed in focus and came easily to him.

As an 'EARLY ADOPTER' , you must be somewhat of a scientist, willing to explore many options, some leading to dead ends, some to new incredible avenues of understanding.
I say, check it all out!
Go forth, young man, and take on the world.

****Think of it as controlling nature, instead of being controlled by nature. - this is my new motto, but being a girl, it mainly refers to weight. ha, ha. - living by the beach is a bear, you ALWAYS have to be swimsuit ready!!!!!!!!

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Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 2531

I'll have to have my wife bring some books home (she's a librarian). She's the only reason I decided to talk to the shrink in the first place. I'm driving her nuts. Didn't bug me too much before, but I've got a ring to protect now.

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Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 3034

Re: ADHD: real or BS?

quote:

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Originally posted by dick-richardson
[...] Early indications are tending toward the affirmative. [...]

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<REFERENCE TYPE="PROBABLY OBSCURE">So at what point in _The_Great_Gatsby_ did you lose interest and fall asleep?</REFERENCE>

But seriously, I do think ADD is a real condition. OTOH, I also think it's probably one of the most over/mis-diagnosed conditions in the history of psychology (with depression being the only contender I can think of). Mood-altering drugs are bad, mmkay, especially if there isn't a medical test that they can run to conclusively say that you have a certain condition. They should be avoided if at all possible. Sometimes people are just hyper because they're trying to cope with a really boring situation. I'd probably say more, but I'm losing interest. JAFO

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 2531

How can I have ADHD when I can spend hours on the internet? Or working on computers?

gbgood, the authors are Edward M. Hallowell and John Ratey.

Toby, JAFO you may be, but that was my intended audience. The quote is familiar. �De d�nde est� (if spanish class serves me correctly)?

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Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Bismarck, ND
Posts: 114

Well, I guess as one of the resident psychologists on the boards (that is my job as a matter of fact), I want to tell you Dick that ADHD is a real syndrome.

Is it overdiagnosed? Yes I believe so.

Are kids often over medicated? Yes I also believe so.

The problem I see in my experience is that children are often over-diagnosed, given the fact that children vary so much in terms of energy level, coping skills, etc. That is why I believe you see so many "ADHD kids" grow out of it eventually.

As far as adults go, I believe that if a pattern has existed over the lifespan and continues to impact on their life, the odds of it being due to "true" ADHD increases.

I often advocate for addressing ADHD behaviorally if at all possible. It is always good to avoid medications if possible (to go back to the physical/mental issue - go with the least restrictive approach - e.g., ibuprofen vs. pain medications). However, for a significant subset of individuals, the symptoms are so neurologically driven that behavioral approaches often lead to minimal success. Often people can benefit better from behavioral approaches once medications have aided in stabilizing the neurological chemistry.

That being said, my bias is of course toward behavioral approaches since I am a psychologist (as opposed to a psychiatrist). Nevertheless, I am a proponent of medication if I feel it is warranted.

In the end, I would at least consider the "options". Medication is a possibility, behavioral management approaches are another. Try to keep an open mind about all of them. I have seen lives literally changed completely with the right combination of medication and behavioral management.

Just an opinion from the local Visorcentral "shrink".

__________________
J. Sean McKay, Ph.D.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"In every work of genius....
we recognize our own rejected thoughts."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 2531

quote:

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Originally posted by headgamer
...Just an opinion from the local Visorcentral "shrink".

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-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1683

I have to agree with everything said so far.

quote:

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But if you've really got ADHD, do something, to just ignore it will make it a problem rather than simply another fact about you like hair color, height, etc.

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I guess it shouldn't be pointed out as well that ADDHD is not necessarily a good or bad thing. For some people it is a problem, for others it is not, and for some, it is actually an advantage.

So, only worry about it if it is causing you and/or those around you problems.

quote:

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One of their books is 'Driven to Distraction'

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Yep...that's the one I read...great book.

quote:

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How can I have ADHD when I can spend hours on the internet?

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That's probably a symptom of ADDHD. From what I understand (and headgamer, please correct me if I am wrong) one aspect of having ADDHD is that part of your brain tends to be over-active, and that it needs to be calmed down and/or distracted for the rest of your mind to get on with itself. That's why ADDHD people tend to do more than one thing at a time. IE, they have the TV on when they read, the Radio on when they work, etc.. (this drives my wife nuts, btw).

The internet is a VERY stimulated activity for that part of the brain. When that troubled part of the brain is 'kept busy' you tend to relax.

In otherwords, for people with ADDHD, overstimulation of the senses can actually calm us.

That's a VERY loose translation of what I'm beginning to understand about ADD, so take it with a grain of salt

As for the computers, ADD people tend to overfocus on things that they really want to do and have an almost impossible time focusing on things that they don't want to do.

It can be confused with laziness and procrastination (something my parents diagnosed be with )

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Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 2531

Laziness and procrastination? hahahaha, the stories I could tell.

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Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Cincinnati, OH USA
Posts: 107

Here is the URL for Amazon's Offering of "Driven to Distraction"

quote:

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Originally posted by gbgood
I can't recall the author's names, but I will post it here when I get home today. One of their books is 'Driven to Distraction', wonderful Q&A format.

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Michael W. Cristiani
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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Out of my skull, back in five minutes
Posts: 1435

quote:

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Originally posted by headgamer
Well, I guess as one of the resident psychologists on the boards ...

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just gave all new meaning to "headgamer" for me.

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location:
Posts: 447

quote:

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Originally posted by dick-richardson
How can I have ADHD when I can spend hours on the internet? Or working on computers?

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Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Bismarck, ND
Posts: 114

quote:

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Originally posted by dick-richardson

Does that term bug you guys?

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Well, I guess it offends some. As for me, yes, I am a psychologist. but more importantly, I am a psychologist with a sense of humor (hence the nick "headgamer"!). So for me, it doesn't bother me.

Thanks for the concern though...



Anyway, all I would suggest is to just keep your mind open about the possibilities for intervention. And also, you can always see a second professional for a second opinion. Though of course, depending on insurance coverage these days, I guess that can kind of be spendy...

If you ever like emailing me off-list about this, that's cool...

__________________
J. Sean McKay, Ph.D.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"In every work of genius....
we recognize our own rejected thoughts."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Bismarck, ND
Posts: 114

quote:

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Originally posted by homer
That's probably a symptom of ADDHD. From what I understand (and headgamer, please correct me if I am wrong) one aspect of having ADDHD is that part of your brain tends to be over-active, and that it needs to be calmed down and/or distracted for the rest of your mind to get on with itself. That's why ADDHD people tend to do more than one thing at a time. IE, they have the TV on when they read, the Radio on when they work, etc.. (this drives my wife nuts, btw).

The internet is a VERY stimulated activity for that part of the brain. When that troubled part of the brain is 'kept busy' you tend to relax.

In otherwords, for people with ADDHD, overstimulation of the senses can actually calm us.

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Very close, homer. People who suffer from ADHD are in constant need of stimulation neurologically. That doesn't necessarily mean that the brain is overactive per se, but rather that it it has a higher threshold for stimulation. For example, if someone went to an action movie in the theatre, and were bombarded with bright special effects, loud music and sound effects, etc., they would feel overstimulated and almost exhausted by the end of the movie. People with ADHD have brains that NEED a lot of stimulation, so that kind of movie can actually calm them down a little since they don't need to ACT on their environment to get the stimulation - the movie provides it for them for a short period of time. And that is what medications for ADHD do, only they do so completely internally. What these medications do is crank up the brain chemistry to provide a higher level of neurological stimulation. This in turn REDUCES the person's need to create the stimulation externally. The end result is the person is less hyperactive, and able to concentrate and attend more, because their brain is being "fed" from the inside.

Please remember though, I am not a psychiatrist, but rather a psychologist. So any direct questions regarding medication should be directed to a psychiatrist.

Other alternatives I mentioned in an earlier post surround behavioral management, include things like reinforcement schedules, coping skills training such as effective study skills, relaxation training, using daily planners (or Visors ) to increase organization, etc. This is my end of the deal when it comes to treatment of ADHD. And then of course there are those whose behavioral presentation LOOKS like ADHD, but really isn't. Instead, their behavior is such due to other environmental, emotional, or social issues. But I won't go into all that, because then we WOULD be here all day talking about it... LOL

Hope all that helps and wasn't TOO boring...

__________________
J. Sean McKay, Ph.D.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"In every work of genius....
we recognize our own rejected thoughts."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1683

Thanks Headgamer...I appreciate that thorough explanation.

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 3034

quote:

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Originally posted by dick-richardson
How can I have ADHD when I can spend hours on the internet? Or working on computers?

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Because those evidently offer you adequate stimulation.

quote:

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Toby, JAFO you may be, but that was my intended audience. The quote is familiar. �De d�nde est� (if spanish class serves me correctly)?

---

Not really a quote, but a reference to an episode of South Park. The school counselors take Timmy to a doctor who's on the take from a shill for the drug companies. The doctor diagnoses ADD by reading _The_Great_Gatsby_ in its entirety. If the person falls asleep or loses interest before he's finished, they _obviously_ must have ADD. Before the episode is over, nearly everyone on the town is on Ritalin and enjoying a Phil Collins concert. Chef, seeing the horrific consequences, must then convince everyone to stop taking the Ritalin hence saving the day. It's basically a commentary on the behaviors of some members of the medical profession and the people who enable them. As my honors and abnormal psych prof used to say, "a diagnosis is only as good as the quack who made it" and "there's a difference between being clinically depressed and being sad because some bad sh*t happened to you". The obvious corrolary to your situation would be, 'there's a difference between having ADD, and just having a boring life in need of some activity". Just make sure which one it really is before getting too drastic with 'cures'.