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Potus
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Registered: Feb 2001
Location:
Posts: 138

Among MP3 players, the iPod. is very small. The smallest MP3 player f is the Sony NW-E3, at 80 x 32 x 12.7mm, and has 64 MEGS storage. The iPod is 102 x 62 x 20mm and has 5000 MEGS storage for only $20 more than the Sony NW-E3 (MSRP). Large capacity MP3 jukeboxes like the Archos or Nomad may be somewhat less expensive than the iPod, but are also larger and bulkier, use heavier 2.5" hard drives, and have slower USB connectors

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10-24-2001 10:20 PM

JHromadka
VisorCentral Staff

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Texan in Calgary for a while
Posts: 1361

quote:
Originally posted by foo fighter
I'll be neading a jar of Vasoline handy when I upgrade the memory [of my Dell laptop] though. A 128mb board still costs around $100.

Ouch! In April I bought 256MB of RAM for my TiBook for only $80.

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James Hromadka
Old Friend

10-25-2001 01:53 PM

mensachicken
Member

Registered: Oct 2000
Location:
Posts: 443

quote:
Originally posted by JHromadka

Ouch! In April I bought 256MB of RAM for my TiBook for only $80.

In September I bought 768MB of RAM for my desktop for C$150 (about us$100). Mind you it was pc133 sdram, but still.

10-25-2001 05:26 PM

foo fighter
Member

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: I'm not sure, but I see lots of lights everywhere.
Posts: 1287

quote:
Originally posted by JHromadka
Ouch! In April I bought 256MB of RAM for my TiBook for only $80.

You are paying less because your Tbook uses PC133 memory. My Dell uses high-end RDRAM which is still very expensive compared to the older 133 SDRAM. My system came equipped with 256mb. That's ok for now, but I will need to beef that up in the near future. Hopefully prices will fall on RDRAM soon. At one time a 128mb board cost...hold onto your hat...$400!!

By the way, I wanted to make a correction: You misquoted me as having a Dell laptop. That's incorrect. I have a Dell Dimension 8100 desktop.

You will NEVER see me carrying one of Dell's clunky ugly @ss Latitude or Inspiron portables. They can shove those things up their "Direct channel".

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10-25-2001 05:42 PM

JHromadka
VisorCentral Staff

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Texan in Calgary for a while
Posts: 1361

quote:
Originally posted by foo fighter
By the way, I wanted to make a correction: You misquoted me as having a Dell laptop. That's incorrect. I have a Dell Dimension 8100 desktop.

You will NEVER see me carrying one of Dell's clunky ugly @ss Latitude or Inspiron portables. They can shove those things up their "Direct channel".

Sorry about that. I guess I misread your posting.

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10-25-2001 07:52 PM

Felipe
Member

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: New York, New York
Posts: 560

One more vote against the IPOD:

http://www.wired.com/news/gizmos/0,1452,47812,00.html

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Felipe Garcia
Happy Treo 600 user, so far. Thanx Cingular for having an unlocked phone.

My Treo 600 is my phone, my PDA, my watch, and my MP3 player. Oh yeah, I take a picture once in a while with it. Convergence is such a great thing.

10-25-2001 11:41 PM

homer
Member

Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1683

That's one of the most poorly written reviews of ANYTHING I've ever read. What in the hell is Wired allowing that guy to grace their pages?

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10-26-2001 04:44 AM

dick-richardson
Member

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 2531

I never noticed how people pick one thing to bash when talking about Apple. With their computers, it MHz. Now with the iPod, it's storage.

It's the entire package, people. Find me an mp3 player with 5GB that is as small, light, user friendly, sparing with batteries, and has anywhere near the transfer speed as the iPod and we'll talk. I won't even bring OS integration into the picture, since it's a sore spot for foo. (adhd musings: is there a wintel machine out there that doesn't require a fan?)

Let's just take one figure: transfer speed. How long would it take to transfer 5GB of music? 20GB?

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10-26-2001 05:15 AM

mensachicken
Member

Registered: Oct 2000
Location:
Posts: 443

quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson
I never noticed how people pick one thing to bash when talking about Apple. With their computers, it MHz. Now with the iPod, it's storage.

i thought the point about the nomad having more storage and having been out for more than 18 months was perfectly valid. besides, all the criticisms are not against storage. some of them are against price. however, were it able to store more, people wouldn't ***** about the price. (actually, they probably would, because apple would raise the price accordingly. and then double it.)

quote:

It's the entire package, people. Find me an mp3 player with 5GB that is as small, light, user friendly, sparing with batteries, and has anywhere near the transfer speed as the iPod and we'll talk.

in my opinion, you're missing the point. it doesn't matter how small it is or how fast it transfers. It is AN MP3 PLAYER.

it's a FIVE GB firewire drive for goodness sakes. yes, it comes in a nice case with (more than likely) competent software. but that doesn't make it worth that much money. (for comparison sake, a SIXTY GB firewire drive is about C$500).

par for the course, apple once again does not understand its target market.

where i am, in canada, i'm already seeing ads running for this thing and it is $600. if you're paying $600 for an mp3 player then you've got a few screws lose. doesn't matter if it's light as a feather and size of a postage stamp. it is an MP3 PLAYER. no matter how nice it looks, it is not worth $600 when it stores less than what was on the market over a year and a half ago. in 3 months this thing will be a joke, storage-wise (i'd argue that at its current price point it already is a joke). yes, it's got fast transfer, but whoop-dee-doo! it's firewire! it's inherent in the technology. it's not as if apple managed to get that transfer speed out of usb!

months from now all the top of the line mp3 players will be firewire. and they'll all be comparable in physical size, have larger storage capacities, and be considerably cheaper.

yes, apple is once again first to market. however, to that i say "so what?"

i don't think it's so remarkable. i don't doubt for a minute that Creative Labs could have put the exact same thing to market EARLIER for the same price. however, they're not that stupid--they understand their market. anyone that's gonna pay $600 for an mp3 player is serious about their music. anyone who's serious about their music is gonna want max storage. therefore, they're gonna throw down an extra $20 and get 4 x the storage space for the new nomad.

yeah, techgeeks and rich folk will buy this as a novelty item--but it's catering to that market that makes apple look so damn silly time and time again.

the cube, anyone?

mc

10-26-2001 05:54 AM

Potus
Member

Registered: Feb 2001
Location:
Posts: 138

quote:
Originally posted by mensachicken

the cube, anyone?

mc

Do you have one for sale? Since you despise Macs, I'd be happy to take it off your hands. By the way, did you check out the GUI of MS-X? Another example of NIH...they can't even steal well.

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When I get a little money I buy books; if any is left, I buy food and clothes.

10-26-2001 06:25 AM

mensachicken
Member

Registered: Oct 2000
Location:
Posts: 443

quote:
Originally posted by Potus

Do you have one for sale? Since you despise Macs, I'd be happy to take it off your hands. By the way, did you check out the GUI of MS-X? Another example of NIH...they can't even steal well.

i don't despise macs. i think apple makes amazing machines. however, i think the company is run by a bunch of idiots who don't know their butts from their elbows.

if the ipod were reasonably priced or if it had storage capacity to match its price i would consider purchasing one. however, as is always the case with apple, the unit will only be reasonably priced when it is too late.

the problem with mac freaks is that they're blinded by their love of the company. if any other company on the planet had made the ipod, i don't doubt the maclovers would be all over it, denouncing it as too little for too much. IT'S AN MP3 PLAYER!

(and just for the record, i LOVE mp3s. i have over 2500 of them on my computer. i have over 100 cd burns of music that i downloaded. i am a paid annual subscriber to emusic and other services. as a result, i'm aware of what's available to me on the mp3 player market. the ipod, at $600 for 5GB, is not even remotely a consideration to me for a next purchase.)

mc

10-26-2001 08:21 AM

Potus
Member

Registered: Feb 2001
Location:
Posts: 138

quote:
Originally posted by mensachicken

if the ipod were reasonably priced or if it had storage capacity to match its price i would consider purchasing one. however, as is always the case with apple, the unit will only be reasonably priced when it is too late.

mc

Prism?
VDX?
VisorPhone?

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When I get a little money I buy books; if any is left, I buy food and clothes.

10-26-2001 12:28 PM

homer
Member

Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1683

quote:
i thought the point about the nomad having more storage and having been out for more than 18 months was perfectly valid.

I'm not questioning the guys point, I'm questioning his complete lack of skill in handling the task of writing a fair unbiased, INTELLIGENT, review. He was just on a rant. That is useless in the context of the site it was published on (Wired). Had he said his rant in here, so what.

And, like everyone else is saying, the amount of memory isn't the selling point...it's the SIZE in COMPARISON to the amount of memory.

quote:
i don't despise macs. i think apple makes amazing machines. however, i think the company is run by a bunch of idiots who don't know their butts from their elbows.

Correctoin...it is run by one arrogant idiot: Steve Jobs. I'm not sure if he knows his butts from his elbow, but he is an amazingly popular corporate CEO. He's a personality and he really pushes the whole concept of 'personality' in everything their company does. I respect that a lot. I respect companies that are willing to make risks and learn from the failures.

quote:
if the ipod were reasonably priced or if it had storage capacity to match its price i would consider purchasing one. however, as is always the case with apple, the unit will only be reasonably priced when it is too late.

To clarify: " the unit will only be reasonably priced [FOR YOUR BUDGET] when it is too late"

I find it too expensive as well. But hey, there are a lot of people that don't. Also, people seem to forget that Apple has no intention on competing with the computer industry as a whole on price. They've decided that that strategy is a dead end...and I agree...we have fewer PC companies now because of price-gouging competitiong. Apple found an audience, and is sticking to it, while slowly competing in the PC realm by selling features and style.

quote:
the problem with mac freaks is that they're blinded by their love of the company.

Some are. But that goes with any company. I know Dell freaks.

quote:
if any other company on the planet had made the ipod, i don't doubt the maclovers would be all over it, denouncing it as too little for too much. IT'S AN MP3 PLAYER!

If any other company on the planet had made the ipod, it wouldn't have looked and worked like it does and it wouldn't have been much of a news-maker...with one exception...Sony could have made a quality product of this nature...and, guess what...it would have probably been overpriced for your budget.

quote:
at $600 for 5GB, is not even remotely a consideration to me for a next purchase.)

So, because this particular product is out of your price range, it is a bad product? Are BMWs poor products just because you can't afford them?

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10-26-2001 02:41 PM

Toby
Member

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 3034

quote:
Originally posted by Potus
Prism?
VDX?
VisorPhone?

You might have had a point with the first and the last, but the Visor Deluxe was extremely reasonably priced upon its initial release.

10-26-2001 03:10 PM

Potus
Member

Registered: Feb 2001
Location:
Posts: 138

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
You might have had a point with the first and the last, but the Visor Deluxe was extremely reasonably priced upon its initial release.

true.

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When I get a little money I buy books; if any is left, I buy food and clothes.

10-26-2001 03:15 PM

foo fighter
Member

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: I'm not sure, but I see lots of lights everywhere.
Posts: 1287

I would have said Prism...Edge...VisorPhone. As well as a few other examples. The 8mb Flash memory module first hit the market at close to $100, which was expensive even at that time for such a small amount of memory.

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10-26-2001 03:16 PM

Potus
Member

Registered: Feb 2001
Location:
Posts: 138

quote:
Originally posted by foo fighter
I would have said Prism...Edge...VisorPhone. As well as a few other examples. The 8mb Flash memory module first hit the market at close to $100, which was expensive even at that time for such a small amount of memory.

My point was to show that last year's tech is this year's bargain. No one in my office could believe I would spend $249 on a calendar. Now they're all sporting pdas, including quite pricey iPaqs...

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When I get a little money I buy books; if any is left, I buy food and clothes.

10-26-2001 03:38 PM

bradhaak
Member

Registered: Oct 2000
Location:
Posts: 380

FWIW - On Tuesday, I got to spend some time playing with an iPod. I also own a Nomad so I can compare them. Yes the iPod is pricey (very), but it is very cool.

To me, the sound quality is noticeably better than the Nomad. It transfers an album in less than ten seconds. it is pocketable. It autosynchs all of the songs and playlists from the computer that you plug it into. The display is very good and complete. The controls are easy to use. It also charges across FirWire, so you don't have to plug it in the adaptor unless you are away from your computer. I haven't had a chance to use one as a data disk.

This is a superior product.

It is too expensive.

I suspect that Apple is going to offer some very good bundles that include iPod when you buy a new computer. This will make the price more reasonable for some people.

I will be getting one at a very substantial employee discount that will put it into the what I think is the correct price range. Hopefully over time, the retail price will drop to a reasonable level so that more people can use it (Windows drivers would be cool also).

10-26-2001 04:42 PM

mensachicken
Member

Registered: Oct 2000
Location:
Posts: 443

quote:
Originally posted by Potus

Prism?
VDX?
VisorPhone?

why you're mentioning the vdx, i haven't a clue. the prism, i can't really say. it wasn't something i was ever interested in purchasing. the visorphone... i absolutely agree and have said so many times on this forum.

now, why are you mentioning handspring? this is the second time that you've assumed that i am on the side of a company that i have not even mentioned (the first was ms).

and how are you being at all logical? is saying that HS messed up the VP justification for apple messing up the ipod? no. it actually supports my argument. HS didn't have a clue what it was doing when it started marketing a cell phone. apple doesn't have a clue what it's doing marketing an mp3 player.

mc

10-26-2001 06:13 PM

mensachicken
Member

Registered: Oct 2000
Location:
Posts: 443

quote:
Originally posted by homer
And, like everyone else is saying, the amount of memory isn't the selling point...it's the SIZE in COMPARISON to the amount of memory.

nonsense. how can you say that amount of memory (i assume you mean storage space and not the 32k ram) is not a selling point. it is the MAIN selling point in any mp3 player.

quote:
To clarify: " the unit will only be reasonably priced [FOR YOUR BUDGET] when it is too late"

again, i don't agree. i'm a music freak and spend a great deal on music and periphs. i have an mp3 player, 3 walkmans, and a minidisc player.

$600 is not a lot of money for me to spend on something i'd use as much as a good mp3 player. but it is too much for this device. as i've said, if it stored 20 megs, i would buy it, no problem. it is not the money, but the money compared to what you get. which is not enough, in this case.

quote:
But hey, there are a lot of people that don't.

bet you that, at its current incarnation, it flops. apple will either have to put out a much larger one or cut the price by about 30%.

quote:

Apple found an audience, and is sticking to it, while slowly competing in the PC realm by selling features and style.

this seems to imply they can do no wrong. that they cannot be overpriced. that is just plain silly. again, i point to the cube. where were all these rich and foolish people when that stylish product made its debut?

quote:
So, because this particular product is out of your price range, it is a bad product? Are BMWs poor products just because you can't afford them?

i never said it was a bad product. i also never said it was out of my price range. i said it was overpriced for what it was: a 5gb firewird drive with some nice packaging and an interface.

mc

10-26-2001 06:24 PM

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