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Toby
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: marketing

quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson
You sound pisse....er, agitated.
:P

Not really. Ever see Carlin's routine on "shell shock"? AAMOF, I think part of it may have specifically dealt with the fact that people avoided calling things like Korea and Vietnam 'wars'. 'Conflict' and 'police action' my @$$.

08-18-2003 11:25 AM

Toby
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: marketing

quote:
Originally posted by clulup
[...] Due to the economic interrelations it is extremely unlikely that there will be war again in Western Europe (and Eastern, too, since they will be part of the European Union).

Ah yes, business partners never fight nor split up a business due to different ideas on how that business should be run.

08-18-2003 11:28 AM

clulup
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: marketing

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
Ah yes, business partners never fight nor split up a business due to different ideas on how that business should be run.

Everybody knows some business partners do sometimes, but if you have 1 million business partners across the borders, and many more doing business on both sides of the border, your statement is of very limited practical relevance.

08-18-2003 11:51 AM

clulup
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: marketing

quote:
Originally posted by ToolkiT

Not quite true, love and hate are too close to be opposites they are both strong emotions.....
The opposite of love is indifference...

I've got Webster on my side, to start off with:

Entry Word: love
Function: noun
Text: 1 the feeling which animates a person who is genuinely fond of someone or something <a mother's love for her child>
Synonyms affection, attachment, devotion, fondness
Related Word like(s), liking, regard; adoration, idolatry, piety, worship; allegiance, fealty, fidelity, loyalty; emotion, sentiment; crush, infatuation, passion, yearning; ardency, ardor, enthusiasm, fervor, zeal
Contrasted Words antipathy, aversion; animosity, animus, enmity, hostility, rancor; abhorrence, detestation, hatred
Antonyms hate
2 the affection and tenderness felt by lovers <the ability to distinguish between love and lust was the mark of her maturity>
Synonyms amorousness, amour, passion
Related Word crush, infatuation; desire, lust, yearning; ardency, ardor, fervor
Idioms (the) tender passion
3
Synonyms LOVE AFFAIR, affair, amour, romance
4
Synonyms SWEETHEART 1, beloved, darling, dear, honey, honeybunch, loveling, sweet, sweetling, turtledove

P.S.: Antonym: "a word of opposite meaning <the usual antonym of good is bad>"

08-18-2003 11:58 AM

clulup
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: marketing

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
No, the opposite of love is apathy.

The opposite of positive is negative, not zero/neutral... or, as someone once wrote "I hate when people make language fuzzy and soft because they can't deal with the reality of a situation"

08-18-2003 12:07 PM

BobbyMike
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: marketing

quote:
Originally posted by clulup
I acknowledge that Porn is big business in entertainment, certainly in the internet.

War is inevitable? That's certainly not true. Look at Europe, 60 years ago everybody would have agreed that it is inevitable that France and Germany will fight wars again, now they are best friends. A German general even led the parade in front of the Arc de Triomphe in Paris on last national holiday in France. Due to the economic interrelations it is extremely unlikely that there will be war again in Western Europe (and Eastern, too, since they will be part of the European Union).

What about your post proves that war is inevitable? You've simply shown that alliances have changed. War is not going to disappear simply because France and Germany are "buddies" now.

__________________
"I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."

08-18-2003 12:57 PM

BobbyMike
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: marketing

quote:
Originally posted by clulup
The opposite of love is hate. Since one thing can have only one opposite (if it has one at all), porn cannot be the opposite of love. I don't think Porn has an opposite, just as Jazz or Baseball don't have an opposite.

Actually you're wrong, as in this instance, Love and Porn are opposites. One encompasses sex with meaningful relationship and longterm commitment while the other encompasses sex with no other purpose than to satisfy lust.

As to Arnold and Buffet, A is already trying to distance himself from comments B made about Prop. 13 Schwarzenegger would be a "fierce protector" of Proposition 13

__________________
"I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."

08-18-2003 01:03 PM

clulup
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: marketing

quote:
Originally posted by BobbyMike
You've simply shown that alliances have changed. War is not going to disappear simply because France and Germany are "buddies" now.

There's also no change in alliance with France and Germany, they are not new allies who use their combined force to attack another nation/alliance. Today a war between France, Germany, Italy, etc. is unthinkable for the population of these countries, 60 years ago it these people also thought that wars are inevitable. The world is becoming smaller and smaller, the nations more interdependent year by year. War is not a useful option for countries who depend on each other economically. Will China attack Europe, with Mercedes, Siemens, Roche, Nestle, etc. being major contributors for work in China? Will the US attack China while China is the fastest growing market in the world? Long live globalisation - open your mind to the peaceful opportunities of a global economy.

08-18-2003 02:36 PM

clulup
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: marketing

- sorry, could was not able to delete this message I did not want to post... -

Last edited by clulup on 08-18-2003 at 02:44 PM

08-18-2003 02:38 PM

clulup
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: marketing

quote:
Originally posted by BobbyMike

Actually you're wrong, as in this instance, Love and Porn are opposites. One encompasses sex with meaningful relationship and longterm commitment while the other encompasses sex with no other purpose than to satisfy lust.

As to Arnold and Buffet, A is already trying to distance himself from comments B made about Prop. 13 Schwarzenegger would be a "fierce protector" of Proposition 13

I still disagree regarding the oppositeness of P vs. L, but ok....

08-18-2003 02:51 PM

Toby
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Registered: Jul 2000
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: marketing

quote:
Originally posted by clulup
Everybody knows some business partners do sometimes, but if you have 1 million business partners across the borders, and many more doing business on both sides of the border, your statement is of very limited practical relevance.

Quite the contrary. It makes it even more relevant. If two or a handful of people have trouble seeing eye to eye on how businesses should go, extrapolate that to millions. Economics is probably second only to religion in causes leading to war.

08-18-2003 03:27 PM

Toby
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: marketing

quote:
Originally posted by clulup
The opposite of positive is negative, not zero/neutral... or, as someone once wrote "I hate when people make language fuzzy and soft because they can't deal with the reality of a situation"

I hate even more when people improperly twist context. The point of the idea that love and hate are not opposites is that they are closely intertwined in some cases and hence cannot be opposites. You've heard of love/hate relationships? If they were opposites such a thing could not seem to exist. They'd be mutually exclusive (if one of Webster's definitions of opposite is to be believed). Hmm...that's why dictionary arguments are so weak to rely on.

08-18-2003 03:35 PM

Toby
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: marketing

quote:
Originally posted by clulup
[...] War is not a useful option for countries who depend on each other economically. Will China attack Europe, with Mercedes, Siemens, Roche, Nestle, etc. being major contributors for work in China? Will the US attack China while China is the fastest growing market in the world? [...]

So, the US would never attack an Arab country when it depends so heavily on their oil? Please. Open your eyes to the realities of a global economy. Nations do not suddenly change when they start trading. The game only changes. Old alliances (and antagonisms) dissolved and new ones form. 'Twould be nice to think that Utopia had arrived, but history suggests otherwise. We're not the only barbarians left on the planet.

08-18-2003 03:41 PM

BobbyMike
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Location: "Children are a gift from God, they are a reward"
Posts: 1049

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: marketing

quote:
Originally posted by clulup
There's also no change in alliance with France and Germany, they are not new allies who use their combined force to attack another nation/alliance. Today a war between France, Germany, Italy, etc. is unthinkable for the population of these countries, 60 years ago it these people also thought that wars are inevitable. The world is becoming smaller and smaller, the nations more interdependent year by year. War is not a useful option for countries who depend on each other economically. Will China attack Europe, with Mercedes, Siemens, Roche, Nestle, etc. being major contributors for work in China? Will the US attack China while China is the fastest growing market in the world? Long live globalisation - open your mind to the peaceful opportunities of a global economy.

Your example just means that the possibility of war BETWEEN those two nations is lessened, not that war won't happen. France and Germany instead will forment civil unrest in other countries by selling arms to "lesser" nations.
Open your mind to reality.

__________________
"I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."

08-18-2003 03:48 PM

BobbyMike
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: marketing

quote:
Originally posted by clulup

I still disagree regarding the oppositeness of P vs. L, but ok....

Of course you disagree.

__________________
"I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."

08-18-2003 03:49 PM

Toby
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Registered: Jul 2000
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Posts: 3034

One last thought on the love/opposite thing. If an opposite cannot be neutral or the lack of something and must be a 'negative', what's the opposite of 'war'? Can't be peace, because the definition of peace is the lack of war. Hmm...

08-18-2003 03:49 PM

Toby
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Registered: Jul 2000
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: marketing

quote:
Originally posted by BobbyMike
Your example just means that the possibility of war BETWEEN those two nations is lessened, not that war won't happen. France and Germany instead will forment civil unrest in other countries by selling arms to "lesser" nations.
Open your mind to reality.

Actually, it doesn't even mean that. It only lessens it in the short term. There's no way to predict how it will affect things in 5-10 years.

08-18-2003 03:51 PM

clulup
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Registered: Jan 2003
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: marketing

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
Quite the contrary. It makes it even more relevant. If two or a handful of people have trouble seeing eye to eye on how businesses should go, extrapolate that to millions. Economics is probably second only to religion in causes leading to war.

Sure, sure, that is also why the exploding cross-border trade between European countries and between the EU and the US, or between the US and Japan have led to rapidly increasing aggression, so that we are standing at the verge of World War III now...

08-18-2003 04:45 PM

clulup
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Registered: Jan 2003
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: marketing

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
The point of the idea that love and hate are not opposites is that they are closely intertwined in some cases and hence cannot be opposites. You've heard of love/hate relationships? If they were opposites such a thing could not seem to exist. They'd be mutually exclusive (if one of Webster's definitions of opposite is to be believed). Hmm...that's why dictionary arguments are so weak to rely on.

Have you ever heard of or even seen black and white pictures? Since black and white are closely intertwined in such images, black and white surely cannot be opposites.... according to your logic, if black and white were opposites, such a thing as a black and white picture could not exist.

As long as I have the major dictionary publishers on my side, I can live with your disagreement...

08-18-2003 04:53 PM

clulup
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: marketing

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
So, the US would never attack an Arab country when it depends so heavily on their oil? Please. Open your eyes to the realities of a global economy. Nations do not suddenly change when they start trading. The game only changes. Old alliances (and antagonisms) dissolved and new ones form. 'Twould be nice to think that Utopia had arrived, but history suggests otherwise. We're not the only barbarians left on the planet.

Which Arab country on whose oil the US depend on was ever attacked by the US? I must have missed that war, please share your knowledge with me.

As you correctly state, the game changes when nations trade.

08-18-2003 05:00 PM

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