VisorCentral.com - Threads being shut down because of the same old people

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-- Threads being shut down because of the same old people (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=15794)

Posted by dick-richardson on 06-08-2001 03:37 PM:

bblue, you're absolutely right that your threads are going to get locked quicker than anyone else's. That is entirely your own fault. Foo Fighter has a history at this board of being helpful and only posting. Therefore, the mods (and most who have been here any length) understand where he is coming from when he posts "Bjork is a freak." You, OTOH, have a history of flaming (or at the very least posting little but drivel). Keep it up and I won't be sorry to see your membership here terminated. This is not a democracy. It's more fair - your "worth" (for lack of a better term) is directly proportional to your behavior. You have been less than productive at this site thus far. Each discussion board is different. I've been a member at two. I got banned from the last one I joined, but here I get a complimentary email every now and then. Maybe you just don't "fit" here.

Oh, and insinuating the mods are merely posturing when they threaten your account is na�ve. I find it hard to believe that you are (or have been) a moderator.

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Posted by Toby on 06-08-2001 03:44 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by BobbyMike
I'm of the opinion that anybody can overcome past stupidity and become a fully productive member of a group. It involves them wanting to fit in though, and too many people think its their job to run around being the "odd man out" and do what ever they can to "loosen up" the people around them they see as "sticks in the mud".

I think this is a very important part of it. One must remember that the group has no responsibility to conform _to_you_.

quote:
(What did Mark Twain say about his dad? Something like "When I was young I thought my father was dumb, amazingly as I got older, he got smarter?"

Twain was well known for mutating his quotes, so Deitrich's may very well be correct, but from here:
"When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years." -- Mark Twain

Posted by na2rboy on 06-08-2001 03:48 PM:

Annoying

Can we just add an "annoying clause" to the TOS and be done with the whole thing? Something like:

"Anyone who annoys more people than not is limited to two posts a day."

Posted by septimus on 06-08-2001 03:50 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
Twain was well known for mutating his quotes, so Deitrich's may very well be correct, but from here:
"When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years." -- Mark Twain

My source wasn't exactly thorough. It was Quotepost

I second the motion to look into integrating "ratings" for members, and I think that maybe the best solution to dealing with bothersome posts is Toby's "bah" method.

__________________
Don't like somebody? Click "Profile" on a post and then click "Ignore "so and so's" posts". Voila!

Posted by bblue on 06-08-2001 06:36 PM:

jkhl

I'll keep it short & simple because I have to go.

1) Behavior as a mod must differ from my behavior right now. I really hated that. That's why I stepped down after 5 months. (that and the fact I became too busy!)

2) I strongly sugguest if that's how many of you feel, read the post before you read who posted it.

3) This is an interesting concept that I just wanted to point out, but don't want it added in the arguement. Does anyone else here average 7 posts a day and RISING? I don't want to get into an arguement about "that's no excuse for behavior" because I already know that, but I'm guessing that many people here think the percentage of my posts that ARE stupid/pointless is higher than it actually is. You don't have to look hard to find my "brilliant" ideas on the board. I do NOT have a history of Flaming.(I have taken great care to this.) I DO have a history of stupid posts, but I think it has become greatly exaggerated. For the 25 posts people find stupid, there are 300+ ones that are helpful.

4) Does Netscape help my typing? OmniWeb's vector text seems to slow me.

5) As for everything else, well, if you feel humor is just a poor excuse for bad behavior, so be it. I'm not going to argue that, because that's set in stone in your mind, and that would require time I don't have at this minute, and wasting bandwidth continuing the arguement, which is NOT what I want. This is MY opinion. There are most likely others who can identify with at least one part of my complaint. Blah. (some already have! thank you for being honest!) I feel in some cases I have been posting downright krap on these boards, but I'm sorry, there are others who post krap too, and it exceeds what petty harm (if all.... "Mr. Staff" comes to mind) mine could possibly do. YES. IT. DOES. At least in my opinion. And justification for spleiiting threds is NTO any more difficult thna lockingg them down. And I'm syaing that form expieirnce.

Blah, igotaa go. bye!@

__________________
"Sorry about the whole thing about losing your life savings, but that Palmpilot is property of Enron, so please give it back"

Posted by Toby on 06-08-2001 07:00 PM:

Re: jkhl

quote:
Originally posted by bblue
[...] (that and the fact I became too busy!)

One would think that if you were as 'busy' as you claim, you'd a) be trying to reduce the amount of time spent on conflict, and b) post much less than you do. I definitely don't have a lot of time to post on the average day. This is reflected in the fact that I average less than 2 posts a day.

quote:
2) I strongly sugguest if that's how many of you feel, read the post before you read who posted it.

Irrelevant. Only two scenarios makes one's words credible: a history of posting correct or helpful information far more often than posting otherwise, or direct evidence of the legitimacy of the claim. Lacking both of those puts one in a situation where one must (re)establish that their words can be taken as 'truth'.

quote:
3) This is an interesting concept that I just wanted to point out, but don't want it added in the arguement. Does anyone else here average 7 posts a day and RISING?

No idea. How is it relevant? It seems to me that someone that posts almost 7 posts a day (and rising) and yet complains about lack of time to post might need to read that VC addiction list that was posted earlier this week.

quote:
I don't want to get into an arguement about "that's no excuse for behavior" because I already know that, but I'm guessing that many people here think the percentage of my posts that ARE stupid/pointless is higher than it actually is.

The percentage is irrelevant. If you posted 700 posts this month, and yet 100 of them were stupid/pointless, that's still a lot of stupid/pointless posts which are wasting people's time.

quote:
You don't have to look hard to find my "brilliant" ideas on the board. I do NOT have a history of Flaming.(I have taken great care to this.)

Do you even know the definition of flaming?

quote:
I DO have a history of stupid posts, but I think it has become greatly exaggerated. For the 25 posts people find stupid, there are 300+ ones that are helpful.

You barely have 300 posts. I think you greatly _under_estimate your contribution to your predicament.

quote:
5) As for everything else, well, if you feel humor is just a poor excuse for bad behavior, so be it.

You think it is?

quote:
I'm not going to argue that,

By making that statement, you are, in effect.

quote:
because that's set in stone in your mind, and that would require time I don't have at this minute, and wasting bandwidth continuing the arguement, which is NOT what I want.

If you don't want to continue it, then don't.

quote:
I feel in some cases I have been posting downright krap on these boards, but I'm sorry, there are others who post krap too, and it exceeds what petty harm (if all.... "Mr. Staff" comes to mind) mine could possibly do.

Bah.

quote:
YES. IT. DOES. At least in my opinion. And justification for spleiiting threds is NTO any more difficult thna lockingg them down. And I'm syaing that form expieirnce.

Blah, igotaa go. bye!@

There is none so blind as he who will not see.

Posted by homer on 06-08-2001 07:06 PM:

bblue:

I don't think anyone dislikes you, or that anyone is after you, personally. You do have to admit, thought, that a lot of your posts are completely pointless.

It's one thing to talk about things that have nothing to do with Visors. I have done that myself many times, but it is another thing just to post random thoughts that really are just you thinking out loud.

I'd recommend that after you type your message, READ it before hitting the Submit button. Ask yourself if your post has ANY relevance to the current thread. Ask yourself if anyone would have interest in what you are saying.

I think a lot of us (myself included) have been guilty of posting irrelevant and pointless opinions. It's just that you seem to post them much more frequently. You also tend to start threads that are completely off the wall. Comparing people to animals is not humorous...it's just play silly.

__________________
We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
-David Byrne

Posted by bblue on 06-08-2001 07:23 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by homer
bblue:

Comparing people and things to animals is not humorous...it's just play silly.

it's fun, too!

nah, ok, I'm back. Spicy BBQ=yum.
---------------------------------------
Ok. I disagree with almost everything Toby said. There. I said it. I think you're wrong, and that you mis-understood what I was trying to say, although you made a good arguement.

I just want to point out something: last time I checked, I had almost 330 posts. I think that can qualify for a well amount over 300.

Flaming is doing verbal (well, typing) harm to another in a deliberate manner that had that SPECIFIC purpose. That's why if anyone finds something in one of my posts offensive, I usually DO delete it.

Finally, everything else is irrelevant. No need to go into detail, I find it wrong. I find them perfectly relevant, and I see no reason to re-word them.

__________________
"Sorry about the whole thing about losing your life savings, but that Palmpilot is property of Enron, so please give it back"

Posted by BobbyMike on 06-08-2001 07:59 PM:

Perhaps the problem here is perception and experience. When I was 16 I said and did many things that were stupid, and or hurtful, to others. 22 years later I find myself in the position that I am not only not doing that, I also try to give other people a break (ok, count backwards from 10..9..8..7..etc.) when they say thoughtless, pointless, hurtful, etc. things. If they continue after I ask them to stop, or tell them how it struck me, I ignore them and go on my merry way.

That is not possible here. I can easily block peoples' posts, but I can't stop them from being jerks, on purpose or not, and getting threads locked down. My point (it seems to be shared by a few others) is that there is a community of people here trying to be that (a community) despite our differences. Can we do that? I think we can if we consider other people first.

If you feel the need, bblue, to test whether or not you are being unjustly hounded by your detractors by all means come up with another profile and post as many replies as you do now. If you don't end up being locked out, you're right. If you do end up being locked out, will you concede that you're doing something wrong (if that's too strong a word, put your own there) and modify your actions?

People come here for a reason. I don't think most of us come here to fight, argue with, or hound others.

It's hard to say you were wrong, but try it. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by the response you get from others.

(While this thread has kinda moved from my original intent, I appreciate the honesty EVERYBODY is putting down. I'm trying to get over the "I'm right and you're wrong" mindset, and hope that this works out amicably, without the need for drastic action, or change to the site (or it's membership).

Michael

__________________
"I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."

Posted by bblue on 06-08-2001 08:22 PM:

Couldn't have said it better myself, Mike.

__________________
"Sorry about the whole thing about losing your life savings, but that Palmpilot is property of Enron, so please give it back"

Posted by K. Cannon on 06-08-2001 08:41 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by BobbyMike
come up with another profile and post as many replies as you do now.

Using the same...humour

Posted by BobbyMike on 06-08-2001 09:02 PM:

Posted by K.Cannon:
"Using the same...humour"

That's what I meant!

__________________
"I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."

Posted by Toby on 06-08-2001 09:06 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by bblue
it's fun, too!

Let it be noted for the record that bblue thinks ridiculing people by comparing them to animals is fun.

quote:
Ok. I disagree with almost everything Toby said.

In and of itself, that's fine. The problem is...

quote:
There. I said it. I think you're wrong, and that you mis-understood what I was trying to say, although you made a good arguement.

As usual, you provide no support for anything you say. This makes so many of your 'arguments' on the level of "is too...is not" type grade-school arguments.

quote:
I just want to point out something: last time I checked, I had almost 330 posts.

Yes, and I'm sure that you have more than 30 pointless posts.

quote:
I think that can qualify for a well amount over 300.

Still irrelevant. Again, this is not about percentages.

quote:
Flaming is doing verbal (well, typing) harm to another in a deliberate manner that had that SPECIFIC purpose.

Your connotation is definitely different from mine. Now perhaps I'm too influenced by Usenet, but to me "a 'flame' usually refers to any message or article that contains strong criticism, usually irrational or highly emotional." I don't recall ever flaming you.

quote:
That's why if anyone finds something in one of my posts offensive, I usually DO delete it.

As I've told you before, this shouldn't be necessary. Think about what you're saying before you hit that "Submit" button.

quote:
Finally, everything else is irrelevant.

*sigh*

quote:
No need to go into detail, I find it wrong.

Actually, I'd very much like you to go into detail. What exactly was wrong. What exactly makes humor an acceptable excuse for poor behavior? Why exactly is it acceptable to create threads for the sole purpose of mocking other posters or even people in the industry if you think your "well percentage" is high enough?

quote:
I find them perfectly relevant, and I see no reason to re-word them.

Bah.

Posted by Toby on 06-08-2001 09:21 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by BobbyMike
Perhaps the problem here is perception and experience.

I think those are contributing factors, but I think logic and reason are lacking in parts of the 'debate' as well.

quote:
When I was 16 I said and did many things that were stupid, and or hurtful, to others. 22 years later I find myself in the position that I am not only not doing that, I also try to give other people a break (ok, count backwards from 10..9..8..7..etc.) when they say thoughtless, pointless, hurtful, etc. things. If they continue after I ask them to stop, or tell them how it struck me, I ignore them and go on my merry way.

Well, I think the flaw here would be to assume that this is universally true of others. Too often, IMO, people fall into the trap of "I think this way, so others must automatically think this way as well, and if they don't they're stupid". Now, perhaps being in a fairly rare temperament type (and hence rarely finding someone who thinks like me) gives me a different perspective on this. I guess it's that green blood thing.

quote:
[...] My point (it seems to be shared by a few others) is that there is a community of people here trying to be that (a community) despite our differences. Can we do that? I think we can if we consider other people first.

Ultimately, that's what it boils down to.

quote:
If you feel the need, bblue, to test whether or not you are being unjustly hounded by your detractors by all means come up with another profile and post as many replies as you do now. If you don't end up being locked out, you're right. If you do end up being locked out, will you concede that you're doing something wrong (if that's too strong a word, put your own there) and modify your actions?

The flaw in this scenario is a Hawthorne-type effect. Would there only be less problems because of modifying one's behavior under that different account. Seems like an unnecessary and unscientific way to solve the problem to me. Modifying the behavior that causes the problem is the only 'real' solution. Perhaps there will be some residual fall-out from past behavior, but if one continues the sincere effort, I have no doubt that it will stop. Keywords here being 'continue' and 'sincere effort'. Without those, don't bother.

quote:
People come here for a reason. I don't think most of us come here to fight, argue with, or hound others.

That's the exact reason I come here, actually (as evidenced by my obscene post per day ratio). ;�~~~

Posted by JHromadka on 06-08-2001 09:37 PM:

I'm playing catchup on the bevy of postings, so forgive me if I don't cover everything...

When I moderate, I don't always read every single message posted. I look at key forums most of the time, and when I have free time I look at all the recent topics. bblue, you can sit there and "be blue" that the moderators have closed many of your topics, but what did you expect? Most of your
postings come in the off-topic forum, which is one of the most scrutinized (and read) forums. Posting things about pigs, staff, etc is insulting to others, even if it was a joke to you. Why would you want to piss off a moderator or other readers?

Although we have the capability, splitting a thread that is in the Off-Topic forum is a little too ironic for my taste, and wastes too much of my time.

BTW, I use OmniWeb on my Mac daily, and it not only spellchecks as I type, there isn't any slowdown. Don't blame the browser for your postings. You read your posts twice after all.

Mark is exactly right in saying that just because this forum is off-topic doesn't mean everything goes. People discuss a lot of things here, from Macs to cars. There are certain things (like illegal activities) that will always be removed. The rest is a grey area, but don't forget, it's our grey area. If you don't like the moderation here, that's too bad. I'm not going to apologize for the other moderators when I haven't seen anything wrong with their moderation.

Are you being picked on? Maybe. Are you the first? Heck no. But that's human nature. Keep crying wolf too many times and eventually no one believes you.

I've seen some excellent posts from you, bblue, but they are in the minority, especially in the OT forum. If you want people to take you seriously, go easy on the fluff for a while. I like posting in Off-topic as much as anyone, but the non-moderators that people listen to didn't get that respect from posting in this forum. Respect is gained by helping others with their Visor problems, which is the whole point of this website. Having 300+ postings isn't worth a hill of beans.

I'm going to close this topic because I don't like all vs. 1 threads, which is what this is turning into.

__________________
James Hromadka
Old Friend

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