VisorCentral.com - YadaYada says module won't work on PRISM!

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-- YadaYada says module won't work on PRISM! (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=9406)

Posted by jschaff on 03-01-2001 06:58 AM:

I went and got a bbq skewer. Went to a golf shop and the guy used a belt sander to reduce the diameter of the skewer to fit the threaded piece. Got the heat shrink tubing from Fry's and am using it when I am not in public. I kept it at the original length of around 10 inches. The strength meter does not show a significant difference, but the signal appears to be more consistent.

Does anyone know where to go to see the status of the Verizon CDPD system?

I think a lot of the missed signals or connections are from the system being inconsistent rather that YY being faulty. There should be a maintenance type website that would show if the system is functional or not.

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Posted by hgn on 03-01-2001 07:07 PM:

EricG,

Thanks for the pointer to the Samsung 1900 replacement antenna. You didn't find that the replacement antenna helped by itself? Actually, I'm not surprised. After I read your message, I pulled out my Samsung 410 cell phone, unscrewed its antenna and screwed it onto my Minstrel and tried it. I noticed no improvement either. That is a little perplexing. I had expected some improvement since the Minstrel uses CDPD, which uses the same carrier frequency as the cell phones.

How did you come up with the 5.5" length? By trial and error? A quarter-wave at CDPD carrier frequency should be around 3.7", which is about the length of the telescoping cell phone antennas (which we have determined to be no good ;-). This is another example of the black art of antenna design, where theory and practice often do not coincide.

Also, I guess I missed the thread on the foil useage. Can anyone give me the link to that thread? Thanks.

Posted by Sailing_Nut on 03-01-2001 10:02 PM:

Prisim <--> YadaYada Troubles Here too!

I've had the Minstrel S for over 2 months and it's never been working for more than an hour or so.

I sent an e-mail to YY telling them that I should be paid to be on their QA staff for all of the time I'm spending finding bugs in their software!

A YY tech. called me back and said his supervisor wanted to swap my Prisim and modem for a Platinum and modem so they could re-produce the problems. I said I didn't want to be without my Prisim for long and he told me it would be a PERMANENT swap! What kind of idiots do they think their user are. Golly Gee Whiz I'll take the $150 loss and no color any day! NOT!

My recomendation to anyone thinking of YY that has a Prisim is to wait a while!

The only positives about this are that the tech. support person I've found (went through some real stones first) is very helpful and that they are not charging me a monthly fee, since it's not working. I'm just left with a $149 weight for my Prisim so that it doesn't float away!

If and when I get the problems solved I'll post here to let all you Prisim owners know it's safe to go back into the wireless watter.

Posted by EricG on 03-01-2001 10:26 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by hgn
EricG,

How did you come up with the 5.5" length? By trial and error? A quarter-wave at CDPD carrier frequency should be around 3.7", which is about the length of the telescoping cell phone antennas (which we have determined to be no good ;-). This is another example of the black art of antenna design, where theory and practice often do not coincide.

Also, I guess I missed the thread on the foil usage. Can anyone give me the link to that thread? Thanks.

Trial and error mostly (although, not much), I was also inspired by my buddies Palm VII, I guesstimated the antenna to be about 5 1/2 inches.. (yes, I know they work on different frequencies), I'm a software/database engineer not an electrical engineer, my EE friends snicker at my "Thomas Edison" "hack-like" methods but THEY DO WORK!!!

The foil trick was simply to take a sheet of common aluminum foil and roll it into a rod, the rod should be thin enough to be able to jam one end into the Minstrel S antenna socket, (besides the strange looks my wife gave me) what's wrong with this method is the foil starts to flake off, and obviously the foil rod is fragile and damages easily, (I didn't come up with the foil method btw).. This inspired me to seek a BETTER alternative.

By the way, I have a Prism..

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Posted by hgn on 03-01-2001 10:54 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by EricG

Trial and error mostly (although, not much), I was also inspired by my buddies Palm VII, I guesstimated the antenna to be about 5 1/2 inches.. (yes, I know they work on different frequencies), I'm a software/database engineer not an electrical engineer, my EE friends snicker at my "Thomas Edison" "hack-like" methods but THEY DO WORK!!!

Hey, nothing wrong with that. I'm an EE, and have built many antennas in the past, including a portable coat-hanger Yagi antenna for my ham radio. When it comes to antenna design, the theories only get you close. Then you have to cut and snip until you get it just right, empirically. There are just so many environmental factors that are very difficult to model.

By the way, I went to Radio Shack over lunch, and picked up the Samsung 1900 replacement antenna. While I was there, I also saw a longer antenna that was labeled as something like a super-duper high-gain cell-phone antenna (I forgot the exact label). Guess what? It was about 6" long! Unfortunately, it didn't have the right base connector.

Thanks again for the tip.

Posted by EricG on 03-02-2001 12:26 AM:

Thanks..

fyi , tip to tip my antenna is 6 1/2 inches (including the end of the threaded part)

If you do figure the "correct" length please let me know..

I mostly based my tests on the Minstrel signal strength meter (the cheesy green bar), I had cut several test lengths and tried each one, trimming as I went along, noting the change in signal strength..

I have also noticed, but am not surprised that, the new antenna seems to be more directional in nature than the "stub"..

For the record, I still carry the stub and usually leave it in as the "default" antenna, I only switch to the bigger antenna when I have trouble keeping a steady connection with the stub.

__________________
"One of the most important things you learn from the internet is that there is no �them� out there. It�s just an awful lot of �us�." -- Douglas Adams

Posted by hgn on 03-02-2001 11:36 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by EricG
fyi , tip to tip my antenna is 6 1/2 inches (including the end of the threaded part)

I made my antenna today. I took a wire coat hanger, cut out the straight bottom part, and cut it in half (about 7.5" each half). The rod is slightly thinner than the opening in the base of the Samsung 1900 replacement antenna, so I roughed up the lower 1/2" of one rod and tinted it heavily with solder to make it slightly larger. Then I hammered it into the base, and screwed it into the Minstrel.

I took it outside and tested it. It was much better than the original stub antenna. I could make a connection where I could not before--the RSSI in the Minstrel program went from alternating between red and above the "m" to solidly above the "u" of the "System Busy" below the bar. Then I started snipping off 1/2" at a time, and retested (using just the RSSI indicator). It started going down, and after 5.5", it seemed to stabilized out until 4.5", when I stopped. So I went back to the 2nd rod and used that at the original 7.5". I did not test to see how good it would be with a longer length, partially because I did not have another coat hanger nearby, and partially because I think it would be unwieldy to carry around a longer antenna. I put black heat shrink on it, doubling up the last 1/4" or so to give it that nub on the tip. I don't think you can tell it was homemade. ;-)

Maybe someone can repeat the experiment, starting with the whole 15" length, and see where the optimal length is (I think it might be 15" ... ;-)

Posted by hgn on 03-05-2001 11:51 PM:

I repeated the experiment, starting at a 15" length. I got optimum signal at around 10 to 11". This is about 3/4 wave length.

The connection between the rod and the screw base seemed very critical though. I needed a soldering iron with a 800-degree setting to make the solder tint job work well.

Posted by EricG on 03-06-2001 06:45 AM:

Humm.. 10" is still a bit too long to carry around comfortably, but good work figuring it out..!!

The cheap grocery store BBQ skewer I used was just about the same size as the opening, with careful tapping, I was able to literally jam the rod into the threaded base.. It is in so well, I doubt I could ever take it out again.. I just kept tapping till I could see the rod in physical contact with the base (no soldering was required), quick volt meter check to confirm electrical contact and I was all set..

__________________
"One of the most important things you learn from the internet is that there is no �them� out there. It�s just an awful lot of �us�." -- Douglas Adams

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